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Thread: Weed!

  1. #21
    Senior Member dspace9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eggman View Post
    Okay, here's where we gotta be careful about how this discussion goes.

    I would be out of my mind if I found out some scumbag dealer got one of my family members hooked on drugs, whether it is coke, heroin, or the like.

    There has to be room there for discussion and nuance - can't just make a blanket statement against testing for illicit, illegal drugs.
    Um.. you completely cut out my rather nuanced argument. There is more to my iceberg.. Ha but I get it.
    Adjectives like "illicit, illegal" doesn't exactly conjure up an unbiased attitude, either.

    Adjectives - to be used only once every 10,000 words -- as in sparingly---according to that spartan E. Hemmingway. Otherwise you make a loaded sentence without even realizing your biased descriptors.


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  2. #22
    Senior Member Cobrajet's Avatar
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    Weed is as legal as Jack Daniel's is where I live. I voted to legalize it even though I don't smoke it. Honestly, nobody I knew who didn't smoke it when it was legal started smoking it when it became legal...including myself. There is a weed store every five feet here, and the weed they sell is super cheap and super potent.

    Weed just makes me dizzy and hungry. No sense in paying for that when I can twirl around in a circle and skip lunch for free.

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  4. #23
    Moderator Eggman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dspace9 View Post
    Um.. you completely cut out my rather nuanced argument. There is more to my iceberg.. Ha but I get it.
    Adjectives like "illicit, illegal" doesn't exactly conjure up an unbiased attitude, either.

    Adjectives - to be used only once every 10,000 words -- as in sparingly---according to that spartan E. Hemmingway. Otherwise you make a loaded sentence without even realizing your biased descriptors.
    I agree there is a misunderstanding here. You took the discussion from marijuana into illegal drugs, a closely-related but off-topic excursion:

    Quote Originally Posted by dspace9 View Post
    I don't agree with drug testing at all. It's basically a morality-based test; there are lots of responsible, successful folks who dabble in cocaine or marijuana a few times a year
    Yes I am biased - I am biased against drug use and I'm well aware of it.





    Let's revisit your post and have a look at a bigger picture:
    Quote Originally Posted by dspace9 View Post
    I don't agree with drug testing at all. It's basically a morality-based test; there are lots of responsible, successful folks who dabble in cocaine or marijuana a few times a year; I don't get why all users get lumped in jail in the same room as violent offenders.

    Really annoys me, because someone who uses coke excessively may be harming themselves, but they're not hurting anyone else. If McDonald's food has led to 50% obesity rates, maybe we all need to rethink what is healthy lifestyle choices, and what is demonstrably causing 45" waistlines.

    Again, drug laws are old fashioned morality mores. Look at Portugal, they decriminalized EVERYTHING in 2001, and they see excessive drug abuse as a medical condition, which it is.
    Testing goes way beyond what you claim is a simple morality test, and I will give some examples why.

    The US military has been testing their service members for illegal drugs and with good, solid reason. Imagine a soldier, sailor or airman in charge of operating some the the worlds most powerful weapons in a drug-addled state.

    Military Drug Program Historical Timeline
    May 26, 1981 - Aircraft accident aboard the USS Nimitz. 14 killed, 48 injured, 7 plans (sic) destroyed, 11 planes damaged, estimated cost of $150M. Six killed had marijuana metabolite in their bodies. Drugs were a contributing factor in the accident.
    Corporations test for drug use because it can have serious consequences, and it is within their rights if that business and their insurance company decide they cannot accept the risk of having an employee under the influence of drugs. The conduct of an employee that uses drugs can cost the business in terms of monetary value and reputation. One mistake and that company can be sued out of business and the employees without jobs. No doubt there are some companies who don't see it as a problem, and that's their business.

    Who would get on an airplane knowing the pilot and/or co-pilot were users?

    It is easy for a single individual to think they are only harming themselves. Add a family in the mix and the dynamics change. Imagine all the families and their lives wrecked when the parents don't have their heads straight - the focus of parents should be on raising their children, not prioritizing addictive substances. And regarding children, it is hard to imagine any parent who would be proud their children start using drugs.

    As for addiction, I acknowledge the fact that the human body can become dependent on a illegal substance but getting off isn't always a medical process. The US military told their servicemen that the only way they could go home after their tour in Vietnam is if they would pass a urinalysis (see Operation Golden Flow) - and the program was a success. With proper motivation, a person can get off using without medical intervention. But this thread really isn't about addiction...





    One thing about online communications (any communication, really) is it is easy to discuss a small slice of any given topic and not give it the full discussion necessary. This can lead to misunderstanding. On the other hand, if the discussion is conducted the right way it can improve knowledge and understanding, and have a very positive impact.

    I admit I may have misunderstood your full meaning, but I can only go on what was posted, and twice you emphasized that drug testing is only a morality test and nothing more. But in reality there is much more to it.

    Some people will support the use of drugs, and they have their reasons. Some people are against the use of drugs, and they have good reasons too. I cannot support the use of illegal drugs and won't brow-beat others into accepting them. Rather the opposite. I'm sure my position comes across as brow-beating - I get it, and many won't care to hear it and would want to stand against it. That's fine, I suppose...

    That being said, this topic probably doesn't belong here on this forum and there are many other places that would better suit the discussion. It's best if we keep our discussion here focused on our favorite little car and wrap this thread up. Any objections?

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  6. #24
    Someone stole half of my brother's healthiest pot plant last week. (You're allowed to grow up to 4 plants for personal consumption in Ontario.)

    Plant theft is a problem - I know of 3 other people who've had their horticulture pilfered from their back yards this year or last.

    Personally, I prefer a good beer. I'd be mad if someone made off with half my beer tree.

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        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2014 Mirage ES 1.2 manual: 63.2 mpg (US) ... 26.9 km/L ... 3.7 L/100 km ... 75.9 mpg (Imp)


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  8. #25
    Senior Member Dirk Diggler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eggman View Post
    I agree there is a misunderstanding here. You took the discussion from marijuana into illegal drugs, a closely-related but off-topic excursion:



    Yes I am biased - I am biased against drug use and I'm well aware of it.





    Let's revisit your post and have a look at a bigger picture:

    Testing goes way beyond what you claim is a simple morality test, and I will give some examples why.

    The US military has been testing their service members for illegal drugs and with good, solid reason. Imagine a soldier, sailor or airman in charge of operating some the the worlds most powerful weapons in a drug-addled state.

    Military Drug Program Historical Timeline


    Corporations test for drug use because it can have serious consequences, and it is within their rights if that business and their insurance company decide they cannot accept the risk of having an employee under the influence of drugs. The conduct of an employee that uses drugs can cost the business in terms of monetary value and reputation. One mistake and that company can be sued out of business and the employees without jobs. No doubt there are some companies who don't see it as a problem, and that's their business.

    Who would get on an airplane knowing the pilot and/or co-pilot were users?

    It is easy for a single individual to think they are only harming themselves. Add a family in the mix and the dynamics change. Imagine all the families and their lives wrecked when the parents don't have their heads straight - the focus of parents should be on raising their children, not prioritizing addictive substances. And regarding children, it is hard to imagine any parent who would be proud their children start using drugs.

    As for addiction, I acknowledge the fact that the human body can become dependent on a illegal substance but getting off isn't always a medical process. The US military told their servicemen that the only way they could go home after their tour in Vietnam is if they would pass a urinalysis (see Operation Golden Flow) - and the program was a success. With proper motivation, a person can get off using without medical intervention. But this thread really isn't about addiction...





    One thing about online communications (any communication, really) is it is easy to discuss a small slice of any given topic and not give it the full discussion necessary. This can lead to misunderstanding. On the other hand, if the discussion is conducted the right way it can improve knowledge and understanding, and have a very positive impact.

    I admit I may have misunderstood your full meaning, but I can only go on what was posted, and twice you emphasized that drug testing is only a morality test and nothing more. But in reality there is much more to it.

    Some people will support the use of drugs, and they have their reasons. Some people are against the use of drugs, and they have good reasons too. I cannot support the use of illegal drugs and won't brow-beat others into accepting them. Rather the opposite. I'm sure my position comes across as brow-beating - I get it, and many won't care to hear it and would want to stand against it. That's fine, I suppose...

    That being said, this topic probably doesn't belong here on this forum and there are many other places that would better suit the discussion. It's best if we keep our discussion here focused on our favorite little car and wrap this thread up. Any objections?
    On 26 May 1981, a Marine Corps EA-6B Prowler assigned to Carrier Air Wing 8 (CVW-8) crashed on the flight deck, killing 14 crewmen and injuring 45 others. The Prowler was fuel-critical after a "bolter" (missed approach), and its crash and the subsequent fire and explosions destroyed or damaged nineteen other aircraft. Despite having no connection to the accident, the media focused on the autopsy results of several members of the Nimitz's enlisted flight deck crew who were killed, who tested positive for marijuana. As covered by Robert Reinhold in the 17 June 1981 edition of The New York Times it was reported by "Experts at the National Institute on Drug Abuse say that it would probably be impossible to establish conclusively that any of the Nimitz crew had been smoking marijuana on the night of the crash because the test does not directly detect the component of marijuana smoke that acts on the brain. Because the metabolites may persist in the blood for many days, the test may detect marijuana that was used many days earlier long after the effects have worn off". As a result, President Ronald Reagan instituted a "Zero Tolerance" drug policy across all of the U.S. armed services, which started the mandatory drug testing of all U.S. military personnel. - wikipedia/New York Times article.

    Testing is easily beaten and its very hard to catch hardcore drug use such as meth or heroin as its in and out of your system in 3 to 5 days. Making testing of questionable effectiveness as a deterrent.

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  10. #26
    Senior Member dspace9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MetroMPG View Post
    Someone stole half of my brother's healthiest pot plant last week. (You're allowed to grow up to 4 plants for personal consumption in Ontario.)

    Plant theft is a problem - I know of 3 other people who've had their horticulture pilfered from their back yards this year or last.

    Personally, I prefer a good beer. I'd be mad if someone made off with half my beer tree.
    I figured plant theft would be a problem. I think I mentioned on this thread already, my friend at work had a very nice new Honda motorcycle, and it got stolen. So a yellow Mercedes AWD that promises 35 MPG seems like a practical vehicle (albeit expensive) that will invariably bring heat.

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        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2014 Mirage ES 1.2 manual: 42.2 mpg (US) ... 17.9 km/L ... 5.6 L/100 km ... 50.7 mpg (Imp)


  11. #27
    Moderator Eggman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirk Diggler View Post
    As a result, President Ronald Reagan instituted a "Zero Tolerance" drug policy across all of the U.S. armed services, which started the mandatory drug testing of all U.S. military personnel. - wikipedia/New York Times article.
    Drug testing for US Armed Forces was happening long before this incident. Reagan stepped up the testing & punishment and subsequently professionalism began to be restored to the military ranks. I’m not saying it’s the only reason but it’s a big factor.

    I wasn’t on the Nimitz when it happened so I can’t say whether drugs were or were not a factor in the incident. That being said I think it’s a stretch to say drugs were not a factor.

    I think we can all agree there are some situations where using drugs is not appropriate.

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        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2015 Mirage ES 1.2 manual: 49.6 mpg (US) ... 21.1 km/L ... 4.7 L/100 km ... 59.5 mpg (Imp)


  12. #28
    Senior Member Dirk Diggler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eggman View Post
    Drug testing for US Armed Forces was happening long before this incident. Reagan stepped up the testing & punishment and subsequently professionalism began to be restored to the military ranks. I’m not saying it’s the only reason but it’s a big factor.

    I wasn’t on the Nimitz when it happened so I can’t say whether drugs were or were not a factor in the incident. That being said I think it’s a stretch to say drugs were not a factor.

    I think we can all agree there are some situations where using drugs is not appropriate.
    Of course and I think it's fair to say the so called "War on Drugs" has been an abject failure in treating addiction like a crime and not a medical issue. I see this everyday at the rehab facility I work at with many patients come out clean and still have most doors shut to them because of past mistakes, particularly in employment. It's a vicious cycle.

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    I haven't read anything but the first post (yet). But wanted to say, in my now 49 years, I've never had the first puff of marijuana. And don't plan to. Until I retire. And then I'm going to roll a joint as big as my arm (one that would make Cheech & Chong envious), and sit back and enjoy my retirement. I've got too good a career going at this time, and a few more years needed to support my sons, to chance it with that now. Even if it were legal, my company would still do random drug tests, and would likely boot you out legal or not (and I don't blame them).

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  14. #30
    Senior Member dspace9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 7milesout View Post
    I haven't read anything but the first post (yet). But wanted to say, in my now 49 years, I've never had the first puff of marijuana. And don't plan to. Until I retire. And then I'm going to roll a joint as big as my arm (one that would make Cheech & Chong envious), and sit back and enjoy my retirement. I've got too good a career going at this time, and a few more years needed to support my sons, to chance it with that now. Even if it were legal, my company would still do random drug tests, and would likely boot you out legal or not (and I don't blame them).
    Haha nice dream, definitely only have a few puffs the first time, lots of people end up with a bad trip and first experience. Sorta like drinking a whole 24 pack of beer the first time you have a drink in your life. Enjoy!


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        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2014 Mirage ES 1.2 manual: 42.2 mpg (US) ... 17.9 km/L ... 5.6 L/100 km ... 50.7 mpg (Imp)


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