Weed!

[Dirk Diggler]

This is a real tough cookie because I can see how this topic can be a problem for someone who has a problem. Or who has seen a family member's life unravel out of control because of drugs.

But this is 2020, and the global view on marijuana is a lot more chill nowadays I think. For example I travelled out west last year, and the theme of the trip was definitely how weed is legal now. The new rules at the airport, and the new rules at the Fairmont resort. Personally I didn't "bring any" with me, but now there are places to toke right at high-end hotels, and rules to follow at the airport.

Really shows where we are in some places in the world.

I also like the idea of casual beer and pot use, when done responsibly, is fine.

So who knows. I think we have had a healthy discussion. I have been trying to change the subject to baseball.

Atlanta Braves blew it tonight. Up 3 in the series and now this collapse.

[Dodge Aries K]

Yeah, that's me... Mr. Clean Living haha. No pot, alcohol, other drugs, cigs, etc. Have enough trouble keeping my mind behaving itself, don't need any help from other substances to make that worse haha.

[Eggman]

Eggman you strike me as a logical person, just look at the numbers brother.

Just so I understand you correctly, are you suggesting that marijuana use is as widespread as alcohol use?

[Dirk Diggler]

Just so I understand you correctly, are you suggesting that marijuana use is as widespread as alcohol use?

No I'm not suggesting cannabis abuse is as wide spread as alcohol abuse, not even close. Good point.

[dspace9]

Atlanta Braves blew it tonight. Up 3 in the series and now this collapse.

Sorry Dirk. The Dodgers are really stacked now that they have Mookie Betts as well as Corey Seager. I'm just so disappointed that the Blue Jays are done. What can you do? You can't make the team win by wearing a hat that day.

[Dirk Diggler]

Sorry Dirk. The Dodgers are really stacked now that they have Mookie Betts as well as Corey Seager. I'm just so disappointed that the Blue Jays are done. What can you do? You can't make the team win by wearing a hat that day.

People like baseball in Canada? I always thought it was kind of a joke to your avg Canadian like the CFL? Now Honkey....I seen footage of whole cities burning in Canada after a loss, as in there is no comparison. Which is weird because Canada is the last place anyone would expect rioting lol. Your countrymen are just too nice donchaknow?

[dspace9]

People like baseball in Canada? I always thought it was kind of a joke to your avg Canadian like the CFL? Now Honkey....I seen footage of whole cities burning in Canada after a loss, as in there is no comparison. Which is weird because Canada is the last place anyone would expect rioting lol. Your countrymen are just too nice donchaknow?

I like watching American college Football way more than the CFL, or the NFL for that matter. Even today I was watching a game. But then a lot of the time I like watching soccer the most.

Hockey is way up there too eh, but my first sports love is baseball. When I was a little kid I was a big Kansas City Royals fan.. way back in the early 90s. Now I am a big Jays fan, I like listening to baseball on my AM radio in my Mirage. AM 980. Anyways I get US radio stations all the time in my car. Props to Buffalo, I actually think that helped the Jays this year.

[Eggman]

Eggman you strike me as a logical person,

Thanks, I guess. Does this mean you no longer see me as Dobby the house elf? (I think I can guess your answer - keep reading and see if you can pick up on the joke here as I suspect not everyone will...)

just look at the numbers brother.

Sure, let's take a closer look at your numbers (unless there's another set of numbers you want to use?)

In most cases, drinking alcohol is not life-threatening. However, when people consume too much alcohol, it can be fatal. The CDC reports that nearly 88,000 alcohol-related deaths occur each year. And binge drinking accounted for about half of these deaths.

In comparison, the number of deaths caused by marijuana is almost zero. A study found that a fatal dose of TCH, the potent chemical in marijuana, would be between 15 and 70 grams. To give you an idea of how much marijuana that is, consider that a typical joint contains about half a gram of marijuana. That means that you would have to smoke between 238 and 1,113 joints in a day to overdose on marijuana. That’s a lot of joints.

Some questions are raised by this:
1. Do you think your quoted statistics on alcohol-related deaths versus marijuana overdoses is an apples to apples comparison? In your statistics, are the number of "alcohol-related deaths" due directly to alcohol poisoning or the stupid stuff people do when drunk (as in drunk driving and other drunken accidents?) Is comparing "alcohol-related deaths" a fair and equal comparison to "marijuana overdoses"? The phrasing suggests the data includes more than overdoses.
2. Would it be more accurate to compare 'alcohol overdoses from beer consumption' with 'marijuana overdoses'? I'm focusing on beer mainly because this thread has been compared to the Beer! thread for similarities, but in reality they are not the same for many reasons. Would including hard alcohol change this?
3. Would you say legalizing beer and beer consumption has impacted these statistics? Subsequently would you expect legalizing marijuana would have an impact on reported marijuana overdoses?

Just so I understand you correctly, are you suggesting that marijuana use is as widespread as alcohol use?

No I'm not suggesting cannabis abuse is as wide spread as alcohol abuse, not even close. Good point.

Would you agree use is different from abuse? I think it's an important distinction to make, and I haven't used the word 'abuse.'

I think we can all agree though that clean living without pot or alcohol is the only stance that truly has the moral highground.

Just speaking for myself, I look at this statement without the word 'moral.' From a logical perspective consuming marijuana really isn't necessary and is a drain on the wallet for a temporary escape. I had a buddy years ago opine about all the money he has spent on marijuana and began to imagine what he could have done with all that cash.

Now of course in our society one is free to choose to consume either beer or marijuana, if that is how they want to spend their time and money. Both have their own unique level of acceptance among today's civilization. However, marijuana is still illegal in most states, and that still carries legal consequences that not everybody is willing to accept. What percentage of any given sociopolitical group do you suppose won't accept marijuana use (and its various accompanying risks) even if it is legalized?

Legalization efforts might change this. Would you say the culture surrounding marijuana and the behavior of marijuana users has broad appeal to the masses?


Tangentially related, this thread reminds me of another discussion on the subject of addiction. I'll try to recount the scenario and hope I get it somewhat right.

Take cocaine for example. For any given first time trying, people may have one of two given reactions - some will like it, some will not like it. Those who don't like it probably won't try it again (unless someone convinces them they should...)

Take the group that didn't have a negative experience trying cocaine. Of that set of individuals, consider two possible outcomes - one subset concludes 'that was amazing - I want more.' The other subset in this scenario concludes 'that was amazing - get it away from me.'

Of course this scenario doesn't cover all the possible outcomes of trying cocaine or any other addictive substance, it's only an abbreviated example of reactions before someone becomes physically addicted. It can be applied to lots of other situations whether it is an addictive substance or not.

---

Our imaginations are perhaps our most important faculty at our disposal. Look at Steven Hawking - the poor guy lost use of most of his body but still used his mind to become one of the most respected theoretical physicists of our time. We can ponder the past, present & future, people we know and people we knew - maybe some we would like to know. Same goes for places and travel. Our imaginations are a very powerful tool.

But imagination can be deceptive, and that's something to guard against. The imagination can conjure scenarios that makes things worse that they really are, and conversely make things appear better. It can be difficult to discern reality from fantasy, but it is important. It's a big (maybe the biggest) part of human nature that I paid little attention to.

Nowadays I pay more attention to imagination and in particular how we deceive ourselves. I see it happening to myself and find easy examples in others. In most situations, I see little harm in addressing our perceptions and conclusions, but some people get more than a little offended to the point where they conclude their safety is being threatened and take drastic measures. People take things the wrong way and make things worse - sometimes, much worse. Again, it's important to guard against letting our imagination deceiving ourselves...

---

Now Honkey....I seen footage of whole cities burning in Canada after a loss

Whole cities burning?? I must have missed this as it sounds like a pretty significant event. Which city did you see burn and under what circumstances?

---

There's a lot to unpack here as it raises lots of questions.

[Dirk Diggler]

Thanks, I guess. Does this mean you no longer see me as Dobby the house elf? (I think I can guess your answer - keep reading and see if you can pick up on the joke here as I suspect not everyone will...)

Sure, let's take a closer look at your numbers (unless there's another set of numbers you want to use?)


Some questions are raised by this:
1. Do you think your quoted statistics on alcohol-related deaths versus marijuana overdoses is an apples to apples comparison? In your statistics, are the number of "alcohol-related deaths" due directly to alcohol poisoning or the stupid stuff people do when drunk (as in drunk driving and other drunken accidents?) Is comparing "alcohol-related deaths" a fair and equal comparison to "marijuana overdoses"? The phrasing suggests the data includes more than overdoses.
2. Would it be more accurate to compare 'alcohol overdoses from beer consumption' with 'marijuana overdoses'? I'm focusing on beer mainly because this thread has been compared to the Beer! thread for similarities, but in reality they are not the same for many reasons. Would including hard alcohol change this?
3. Would you say legalizing beer and beer consumption has impacted these statistics? Subsequently would you expect legalizing marijuana would have an impact on reported marijuana overdoses?



Would you agree use is different from abuse? I think it's an important distinction to make, and I haven't used the word 'abuse.'


Just speaking for myself, I look at this statement without the word 'moral.' From a logical perspective consuming marijuana really isn't necessary and is a drain on the wallet for a temporary escape. I had a buddy years ago opine about all the money he has spent on marijuana and began to imagine what he could have done with all that cash.

Now of course in our society one is free to choose to consume either beer or marijuana, if that is how they want to spend their time and money. Both have their own unique level of acceptance among today's civilization. However, marijuana is still illegal in most states, and that still carries legal consequences that not everybody is willing to accept. What percentage of any given sociopolitical group do you suppose won't accept marijuana use (and its various accompanying risks) even if it is legalized?

Legalization efforts might change this. Would you say the culture surrounding marijuana and the behavior of marijuana users has broad appeal to the masses?


Tangentially related, this thread reminds me of another discussion on the subject of addiction. I'll try to recount the scenario and hope I get it somewhat right.

Take cocaine for example. For any given first time trying, people may have one of two given reactions - some will like it, some will not like it. Those who don't like it probably won't try it again (unless someone convinces them they should...)

Take the group that didn't have a negative experience trying cocaine. Of that set of individuals, consider two possible outcomes - one subset concludes 'that was amazing - I want more.' The other subset in this scenario concludes 'that was amazing - get it away from me.'

Of course this scenario doesn't cover all the possible outcomes of trying cocaine or any other addictive substance, it's only an abbreviated example of reactions before someone becomes physically addicted. It can be applied to lots of other situations whether it is an addictive substance or not.

---

Our imaginations are perhaps our most important faculty at our disposal. Look at Steven Hawking - the poor guy lost use of most of his body but still used his mind to become one of the most respected theoretical physicists of our time. We can ponder the past, present & future, people we know and people we knew - maybe some we would like to know. Same goes for places and travel. Our imaginations are a very powerful tool.

But imagination can be deceptive, and that's something to guard against. The imagination can conjure scenarios that makes things worse that they really are, and conversely make things appear better. It can be difficult to discern reality from fantasy, but it is important. It's a big (maybe the biggest) part of human nature that I paid little attention to.

Nowadays I pay more attention to imagination and in particular how we deceive ourselves. I see it happening to myself and find easy examples in others. In most situations, I see little harm in addressing our perceptions and conclusions, but some people get more than a little offended to the point where they conclude their safety is being threatened and take drastic measures. People take things the wrong way and make things worse - sometimes, much worse. Again, it's important to guard against letting our imagination deceiving ourselves...

---

Whole cities burning?? I must have missed this as it sounds like a pretty significant event. Which city did you see burn and under what circumstances?

---

There's a lot to unpack here as it raises lots of questions.

I beg your pardon but Dobby the house elf is extremely powerful in magic and yes of course your a keystone member of the wizarding Mirage council, I my self, am not. I'm more like the village idiot lol. As for your other questions you can't argue with the fact that there has been hardly any deaths associated from cannabis usage. That stat in itself invalidates any arguement that alcohol has a role in society but pot does not. There's no getting around this by splitting hairs. I respect your opinion and your right with the exception of the multitude of medical ailments that cannabis has proven to help alleviate, your better off being totally clean. With that thought besides sepsis prevention in rubbing alcohol or 1 daily glass of red wine for the heart, I can't think of too many ailments alcohol can help with. Certainly not glaucoma, intestinal inflammation, nausea, pain control, etc. like the controversial Satan's weed. The winds of change are blowing my friend, and next time I'm in Cleveland you and I are eating pot brownies and going to the Rock n Roll hall of fame, I must insist upon this.

[Dirk Diggler]

https://youtu.be/Sf5llrEjnok

Hockey riots in Vancouver, you gotta admire the passion for the sport. I'm still mad the Atlanta Thrashers left as they had a solid fanbase in Atlanta.