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Thread: Car Stalled, Won't Start, Running Rich (Please Help!)

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicPunk View Post
    Again, how do you drive? Do you baby the car, or did the previous owner? I'd take it to a trusted independent shop for a second opinion. These engines are pretty reliable, I'd be suprised if yours lost compression at that mileage. Possible, but unlikely.
    I do baby drive it. Never accelerate with pedal more than half way, mostly highway driving, never short trips. I bought it from a Hertz in 2016 though with 28k so I'd imagine it wasn't taken care of by them. I'm having it towed to my uncle's shop tomorrow and I'm gonna do some tests on it. I'll report back either way if it needs a swap or it was something else.

    I appreciate everyone's help!



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  3. #22
    Senior Member AtomicPunk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JJ_Is_Edge View Post
    I do baby drive it. Never accelerate with pedal more than half way, mostly highway driving, never short trips. I bought it from a Hertz in 2016 though with 28k so I'd imagine it wasn't taken care of by them. I'm having it towed to my uncle's shop tomorrow and I'm gonna do some tests on it. I'll report back either way if it needs a swap or it was something else.

    I appreciate everyone's help!
    Well, odds are the renters didn't baby it, lol. Fingers crossed for you; I hope its something cheaper than a new engine!

  4. #23
    Senior Member Top_Fuel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JJ_Is_Edge View Post
    ...I'm gonna do some tests on it. I'll report back....
    Good luck and keep us posted.

    Catastrophic engine failures are extremely rare in these cars, so it will be interesting to see what you find.

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        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2015 Mirage ES 1.2 manual: 52.2 mpg (US) ... 22.2 km/L ... 4.5 L/100 km ... 62.6 mpg (Imp)


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    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Fuel View Post
    Good luck and keep us posted.

    Catastrophic engine failures are extremely rare in these cars, so it will be interesting to see what you find.
    I agree.

    Other known examples include failed head gaskets along with carbon-fouled intake valves.

    I’ve subscribed to this thread for updates.

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        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2015 Mirage ES 1.2 manual: 49.6 mpg (US) ... 21.1 km/L ... 4.7 L/100 km ... 59.5 mpg (Imp)


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    Sorry to hear you are having car troubles.

    Very curious to see what you find as its strange there was no code. If it was running rich enough to kill it at idle after driving some distance while on a warm engine the fuel trims should be so out of whack it should throw a code. Wonder if the clear flood procedure is a red herring.

    Did you burn oil?

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    Quote Originally Posted by JJ_Is_Edge View Post
    Dealership says no compression, needs a new engine.
    Its difficult to say much from a distance, but consider this:

    I wouldnt believe the engine being busted without real evidence! That guy is just guessing because he can not find the cause! A worn or mechanically failing engine will not make it run rich, nor low compression.

    To do:
    1.)You need to look at it with an OBD2 tester.

    2.) The plugs were badly fouled. Maybe because it was running too rich. Burning oil too? It just could be the valves arent closing all the way because of fouled-up stems and thus no compression. Happened on mine twice. You need a good look to tell. Best to take off the intake manifold to look. Refer to the FSM for how.

    3.) Have a look at the coolant temp sensor, and measure if it is OK, and also if it is actually connected, could be a wire broke where a tie holds the cable assy. If the ECU senses zero Ohms on the coolant temp sensor, it will make it as rich as in Antarctic sub-zero temperatures. A cheap OBD2 tester will tell you what temperature is being sensed.
    Last edited by foama; 10-20-2020 at 08:21 AM.

  8. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by foama View Post

    2.) The plugs were badly fouled. Maybe because it was running too rich.

    3.) If the ECU senses zero Ohms on the coolant temp sensor, it will make it as rich as in Antarctic sub-zero temperatures.
    2- wouldn't running rich enough to stall it at idle screw the fuel trims up and trip a code? The car was staling at idle after being warm when it should be in closed loop and targeting stoich.

    3- once the o2 sensor was warm the ecu goes into closed loop, even with a busted temp sensor the ecu would still target stoich I would think. In closed loop the fuel trims should adjust for an incorrect perception of very cold ambient air and it should not run rich. If it stayed in open loop...it should have tripped a code.

    I fail to see how a car in closed loop can get rich enough to stall without throwing a code.

    Oil burning, gunked up valves and loss of compression may not have tripped a code and might make sense.

    Getting the car to restart by using the clear flood procedure could be a false positive. The procedure may worked for some reason other than a flooded engine.

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    Thank you all for the help! A couple of things:

    I have confirmed the car has no compression. No signs of a head gasket failure and I'm led to believe it IS worn piston rings due to running rich for what has likely been a while. That being said, I found a 2019 engine for $400 and I found a shop that will install it for $950. If I still had my tools I'd just install it myself but alas I don't.

    To be completely honest, I did not take the head off, check the valves, etc. Just a compression test to confirm that there is little to no compression in all 3 cylinders. I am deciding to go the engine swap route for a few reasons. The first is convenience. I need this car to get to work, and I don't have time to tear the engine down to save a couple bucks. The second is that while there may very well be something that could be repaired, I don't like the thought of putting a ton of labor into an engine that has potentially been worn down in other areas from running that rich for so long in addition to the unknown history from being a rental car. And lastly, from what I read in the 2017 engine into a 2015 thread, there were a fair amount of improvements in the 2017+ engines. I plan on keeping this car as long as possible and I've done a lot of stuff in regards to installing a sound system (3 way components, subs, 10" touch screen) and other labor intensive mods that make me plan on keeping this car (hopefully) another 5 or so years. $1,400ish out the door seems like a decent price for a 9,000 mile engine with some improvements that should hopefully last until I decide to get rid of the car.

    I really want to thank everyone for their input and advice, it was super helpful and really appreciated!

  10. #29
    Senior Member Top_Fuel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JJ_Is_Edge View Post
    I have confirmed the car has no compression.
    Thanks for reporting back. Hopefully we can learn something from your experience.

    Just out of curiosity...what do you mean by no compression? Are we talking like 3 PSI on every cylinder? How bad was it...and were all the cylinders pretty much the same?

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        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2015 Mirage ES 1.2 manual: 52.2 mpg (US) ... 22.2 km/L ... 4.5 L/100 km ... 62.6 mpg (Imp)


  11. #30
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    JJ - My reply is broken down into 2 segments. A somewhat useful segment. And a useless segment. I specialize in uselessness.

    The somewhat useful segment: I agree with your direction to replace the engine and outsource the labor. If you're going to pay someone $950 to do the labor, make sure they're not just some backwood rednecks. I did that once, and it didn't work out so well.


    The useless segment: I think you're letting this theory about it being rich cloud things. It generally makes no difference based on your direction though. Your direction is solid. But I don't believe even if it were running rich it would cause it to lose compression. It would appear your vehicle is a CVT, because you say it was a rental car. I'm not sure any place rents a manual transmission car in the U.S. But here's a for instance. Let's say your cam chain has seen a lot of wear, due to poor lubrication. It is my theory that Hertz never does even 1 maintenance on a car. They buy it, slam it out on the road, pull it off the road at some set miles and sell it. I would doubt they'd spend one thin dime to maintain it. Not having fresh oil in there could cause the cam chain to not get proper lubrication (along with everything else). Perhaps the cam chain could stretch enough to throw off your cam timing. Improper cam timing can lead to less than desirable, perhaps little to no compression.

    There's lots of ways to lose compression. Bad oil can lead to ring wear too of course. Ring wear = low compression. I think the whole rich thing is perhaps not likely, but is beside the point in any event.

    And as far as closed loop / open loop. I don't happen to know factually what a computer controlled engine does. But I'm a carburetor tuning expert. The vehicles I've had my AFR on will hardly even idle at stoich. So I have my doubts a computer controlled car shoots for stoich at idle. My LA 360 idles rich as a mofo at idle. And just get's plain *****y about idling when anywhere near stoich. I've got it idling in the neighborhood of 13.0 - 13.5 and it is still not that smooth. Cam timing and lift comes into play as well. But my LA 360 runs at about 12.5 - 13.0 at WOT and top rpm. And cruises at about 15.5. The only time it hits stoich is in transitions between power and cruising. I have to assume even modern day cars run similarly, not just aiming for 14.7:1 all the time. 14.7 wastes fuel when cruising, and could lead to burning a piston at WOT. But again, I don't know the fact as I have not applied an AFR gauge to my computer controlled vehicles.


    7milesout


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        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2020 Mirage ES 1.2 manual: 42.4 mpg (US) ... 18.0 km/L ... 5.6 L/100 km ... 50.9 mpg (Imp)


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