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Thread: Imagine if the Mirage had diesel option

  1. #11
    Nickname: "Rally" MirageRally's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cobrajet View Post
    Yeah, apparently the powers-that-be just discovered that diesels burn fossil fuels, and those fossil fuels pollute. They conveniently forget the strip mines that provide the materials for batteries in electric cars and the mostly coal-fired power plants that charge them up.

    Today's diesels are actually quite clean, but the push is to electric cars powered by millions of solar panels and windmills which are supposedly only going to be put in places that don't piss anyone off. I remember the big 'veggie oil diesel' craze of about ten years ago when gas prices went nuts, but I guess people are mostly over it now. Add "Dieselgate" into the mix and diesels are looking more than a little passe.
    I remember about VW.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eggman View Post
    Still would like to see an electric drivetrain for the Mirage. Seems like a good platform.

    If only there were someone around these parts with experience in electric conversions...
    Don't like that electric vehicle is only have one speed... I'd like to be able to somehow electronically control shifting even if there's no gears.

    Also just trying out the multi-quote feature to see if it works



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  3. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eggman View Post
    Still would like to see an electric drivetrain for the Mirage. Seems like a good platform.

    If only there were someone around these parts with experience in electric conversions...
    I really like the 5-speed manual powertrain of the Mirage, & I glad it is continuing in the 2021 & beyond hopefully. I also like the fact that the Mirage can almost do what a more expensive Prius c can do without the extra cost of batteries & advanced technology.

    I can see where some would be attracted to an electric car. If most of your driving is shorts trips, there are some definite advantages. There's no need to worry about oil changes, replacing engine air filters, etc....

    Likewise, I can see the advantage of a reliable diesel engine for those who are high mileage drivers. Diesel is a light oil, & when it burns it lubricates the engine. Whereas, gas will wash oil away from internal parts. If you really rack up the miles, a good, well designed diesel engine will last a very long time.

    I recently trained & tested with a Freightliner semi that had approximately 1,005,000 miles on the odometer. Even at 1 million miles, it seemed to run perfectly fine to me. If you like a turbo engine, diesels & turbos seem to go together quite well.

    If given the choice of a Mirage with an electric option, diesel/turbo option, or current powertrain, the electric powertrain would be my last choice. For someone else, it may be their first choice.

    I don't think Mitsubishi sells enough Mirages (in North America at least) to justify changing much. I don't think offering more powertrain choices would cause more customers to flock to their showrooms, unless gas prices took a huge jump. That doesn't mean some consumers like us wouldn't be interested in different powertrains for the Mirage.

    I would be more interested in Mitsubishi offering a small pickup truck with a small turbo diesel engine some day. I sort of admire what Mazda is producing these day. They recently announced a new small pickup truck for their other world markets. Since Mazda has bought back all of their shares once owned by Ford, we'll probably never see this truck here. I liked some of the shared platforms that Ford & Mazda had in the past. Likewise, some of the Toyota products offered through GM were good, too.

    https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-car...ign%20language.

  4. #13
    Moderator Eggman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MirageRally View Post
    Don't like that electric vehicle is only have one speed... I'd like to be able to somehow electronically control shifting even if there's no gears.
    But why pay for that complication when an electric motor doesn't need it?

    Doesn't Mitsubishi hold a patent for electric drivetrains? Something like a motor at or otherwise integrated into each wheel.

    Mitsubishi's Electric Evo: The Lancer Evolution MIEV
    Last edited by Eggman; 11-29-2020 at 06:49 PM.

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        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2015 Mirage ES 1.2 manual: 49.7 mpg (US) ... 21.1 km/L ... 4.7 L/100 km ... 59.7 mpg (Imp)


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    Nickname: "Rally" MirageRally's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eggman View Post
    But why pay for that complication when an electric motor doesn't need it?

    Doesn't Mitsubishi hold a patent for electric drivetrains? Something like a motor at or otherwise integrated into each wheel.
    Cuz I need to do something while I'm driving lol. I can't just put it in drive and go... That's why I got my manual cuz it helps me shift and keep me (distracted)? While driving... Distracted isn't the right word.... In tune or connected, that's it. if I'm shifting I feel a part of the car whereas driving an automatic just makes me feel disconnected. And when I'm driving an automatic I get distracted because I don't have something to do. I have crazy ADD so shifting kind of helps me with that.
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    Maybe as I get older I won't want to shift as much but it's nice having to have the option... What about cvts? They don't need paddle shifters or shifting modes and yet some manufacturers put them in. It makes them more enjoyable to drive at least from my opinion.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MirageRally View Post
    Maybe as I get older I won't want to shift as much
    Take it from an old guy, you’ll still wanna drive a manual transmission. My next Mirage will be a 5 speed and there is no way I’d ever part with my 5 speed Outlander Sport unless I’m dead.

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        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2015 Mirage ES 1.2 automatic: 40.4 mpg (US) ... 17.2 km/L ... 5.8 L/100 km ... 48.5 mpg (Imp)


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    Lol. And yeah! Never part with a MANUAL SUV! That's a diamond in the rough... especially New!
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    Senior Member dspace9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cobrajet View Post
    About 10-15 years ago I found a very rare 1984 Toyota Corolla diesel with a manual transmission for sale on Craigslist. The ad said it was in nice shape and ran, but 'had a big oil leak'. I knew how rare and awesome these 50 mpg cars were, so I happily made the 40 minute drive to go see it with money in my hand.
    I saw this 1982 Tercel for sale on auto trader.ca the other day. Looks the same as the day it came off the showroom floor. You don't see mint-condition cars of this era that often.

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    https://www.autotrader.ca/a/Toyota/T...oaAmsaEALw_wcB

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        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 214 Mirage ES 1.2 manual: 41.8 mpg (US) ... 17.8 km/L ... 5.6 L/100 km ... 50.2 mpg (Imp)


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    Moderator Eggman's Avatar
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    The jalopnik article says an electric drivetrain was being developed around the previous generation of this platform when it was still called the Colt:

    The Electric Mitsubishi Colt

    Quote Originally Posted by carpages.co.uk

    Colt EV test car uses in-wheel motors & lithium-ion batteries

    Mitsubishi Motors has chosen to center its development of next-generation electric vehicle technology on in-wheel motors and on lithium-ion batteries that the company has been working on for several years. Currently working on a test vehicle that utilizes these technologies, which it has dubbed the Mitsubishi In-wheel motor Electric Vehicle (MIEV) concept, the company also envisages their application to hybrid electric vehicles and fuel cell vehicles.

    The in-wheel motor makes it possible to regulate drive torque and braking force independently at each wheel without the need for any transmission, drive shaft or other complex mechanical components. For this reason, MIEV offers highly promising potential in the ongoing evolution of Mitsubishi's all-wheel control technology that is employed so successfully in the Lancer Evolution, Pajero and other 4WD models. The fact that the drive system is housed inside the wheel itself offers significantly greater design freedom and also makes it easier to locate such space-consuming components as the battery system, fuel cell stacks and hydrogen tanks used in hybrid and fuel cell vehicles.

    Lithium-ion battery technology offers superior specific energy, specific power, and life over other types of rechargeable batteries and as such is expected to contribute to higher top speeds, extended cruising ranges and to greater weight reductions in hybrid and fuel cell vehicles.

    Mitsubishi Motors has already started development and testing of the MIEV concept using a production compact vehicle, Colt, to serve as the rolling test bed. The Colt EV uses rear in-wheel motors powered by a lithium-ion battery system. The company is also currently developing a more powerful in-wheel motor for use in a 4WD test car. The Colt EV will be on display at the "2005 Automotive Engineering Exposition" to be held at the Pacifico Yokohama Exhibition Hall, Yokohama from May 18th through May 20th.


    MIEV Concept

    Mitsubishi Motors was one of the first automakers to start research into and development of the electric vehicle as an alternative fuel vehicle. In recent years, the company has turned its attention to the practical application of high-performance lithium-ion battery power to propel FTO EV and Eclipse EV experimental vehicles in 24-hour distance and public road test programs.

    Exploiting the benefits of lithium-ion battery and in-wheel motor technology, the MIEV concept opens up new possibilities in terms of alternative fuel vehicle development. As well as seeking further possibilities for the EV, Mitsubishi Motors is also looking at the application of the MIEV concept to hybrid and fuel cell vehicles.

    1. In-wheel motor

    (1) Further evolution of all-wheel control technology

    A major benefit of the in-wheel motor is that it enables drive torque and braking force to be regulated with high precision on an individual wheel basis in both two- and four-wheel drive systems without requiring transmissions, drive shafts, differential gears or other complex and heavy components. The in-wheel motor therefore holds great promise in terms of the contribution to the further evolution of Mitsubishi's all-wheel control technology that enjoys high critical acclaim on such production models as the Lancer Evolution and Pajero.

    (2) Greater freedom in layout design

    Housing the drive system in the wheels gives greater freedom in designing the layout. This will facilitate the conversion of IC engine-powered vehicles into hybrid vehicles without requiring the introduction of complex hybrid power systems. It will also make it easier to provide room for space-consuming components such as fuel cell stacks and hydrogen tanks in fuel cell vehicles. The space-saving benefits of the in-wheel motors also offer exciting possibilities in terms of body design. Designers will be able to create innovative exteriors, improve dynamic performance through weight distribution optimization, provide roomier interior space and improve crash worthiness through optimization of the structural framework.

    2. Lithium-ion battery

    Lithium-ion battery technology offers advantages of specific energy, specific power, and life over other types of rechargeable batteries. Mitsubishi Motors has already built several test vehicles using lithium-ion battery systems, including the Mitsubishi HEV in 1996, the FTO-EV in 1998 and the Eclipse EV in 2000. The FTO-EV set a multiple-charge 24-hour distance world record on a proving ground, while the Eclipse EV covered over 400 km on public roads on a single battery charge. These and other testing programs have enabled the company to verify the practical applicability of this type of battery.

    Lithium-ion battery has made major advances in performance over the past few years and offers much promise in terms of higher speeds, extended cruising range and weight reduction for electric, hybrid and fuel cell vehicles in the future.

    MIEV Schematic - Colt EV profile

    The in-wheel motor test car, Colt EV, is based on the standard compact vehicle, Colt. After removing the combustion engine, fuel tank and transmission, two in-wheel motors were fitted to the rear wheels and powered by a floor-mounted lithium-ion battery system.

    Rigorous proving ground tests are now being conducted on the Colt EV. The test car is scheduled to undergo a tuning program with independent control of drive torque and braking force for left and right wheels to improve dynamic performance. After receiving vehicle type certification, Colt EV will undergo verification testing on public roads. Mitsubishi Motors will use the on-road testing program to identify and resolve any problems unique to the in-wheel motor vehicle, including any deterioration in road holding and ride comfort due to increases in un-sprung weight, as well as reliability and durability issues in the in-wheel motor system and its peripheral components (suspension, wheels, tyres).

    Mitsubishi Motors is continuing its motor and battery research and development programs as it seeks to improve performance while reducing size and weight. The company is currently working on a 50kW in-wheel motor for 4WD vehicle use that will eventually feature individual drive torque and braking force control for each wheel.

    Published : 13/05/05 Author : Melanie Carter
    It's an old article - surprising it's still around. But this is the drivetrain Mitsubishi was trying to bring to market.

        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2015 Mirage ES 1.2 manual: 49.7 mpg (US) ... 21.1 km/L ... 4.7 L/100 km ... 59.7 mpg (Imp)


  14. #20
    Senior Member dspace9's Avatar
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    Lots of people put electric powertrains inside old classics these days. 1964 1/2 eMustang could be done, or an eFiero. If you have endless money, the options are limitless with what you can do.

    Build an eMirage with one of those junker Mirages you have in the States, but not in Canada.


        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 214 Mirage ES 1.2 manual: 41.8 mpg (US) ... 17.8 km/L ... 5.6 L/100 km ... 50.2 mpg (Imp)


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