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Thread: Any Prius owners? Have you considered one?

  1. #1

    Any Prius owners? Have you considered one?

    Someone asked me in a private message about the Toyota Prius, because they remembered me saying I owned one, and they're considering getting a used one in the future.

    I owned a 2004 model (first year of the 2nd generation) in 2015-2016:

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    I bought the above beauty with about 270k kilometers / 168k miles on the clock. Despite the age & high kms I was confident with the purchase because (A) it drove fine and (B) the previous owner provided a STACK of receipts for oil changes/repairs/maintenance over ~10 years of ownership. The car was not neglected.

    To pass Ontario's mandatory mechanical inspection on transfer of ownership, it needed one control arm (worn bushings). In the year I had it, I replaced brake pads/rotors, 12v battery, and welded a couple of patches on a leaky exhaust pipe - normal older car stuff.

    More info: here's the EcoModder thread about my 2004 Prius and the fuel economy modifications I did to it.

    CVT worries?

    Nope.

    The CVT in a Toyota hybrid is a planetary gearset design, not a belt & pulley arrangement like the JATCO CVT's. They're even more bulletproof than a conventional automatic or manual transmission.


    Hybrid battery worries?


    Battery failures in older, high km/mile Priuses are rare (2nd gen and newer), but not unheard of. (Battery failures in older Honda hybrids are much more common - I also owned a Honda Insight, which I knowingly bought with a near-dead battery.)

    But I was concerned enough to pay very close attention to the battery performance during the test drive. There are ways to test drive the battery where you cause the car to intentionally run the charge low and then recharge it again to get a rough sense of its capacity. At 270k kms, mine performed as good as new. (You can also have them tested with a special diagnostic tool. )

    Toyota designed a very conservative battery management system and chose a robust, tried and true "old-school" battery chemistry (nickel metal hydride) which is known to last a long time.

    Worst case scenario, used known-good batteries are relatively cheap and plentiful.


    MPG?


    A 2nd gen Prius will slightly outperform a Mirage 5MT head-to-head. And I didn't even mind that it was an automatic - I really enjoy driving the Toyota hybrid system. In fact, the Prius was the only automatic car I've owned since I was 16.

    Toyota improved MPG in every generation of the Prius. I think we're at the 4th or 5th generation now.


    Would I recommend one?

    Yup! It's one of Toyota's most reliable cars. I actually have recommended it, and several friends have bought them.

    One my favourite cars to drive in the past couple of years is one friend's 2018 plug-in Prius Prime (40-60 km of 100% electric driving, then it switches to normal gasoline/hybrid operation). Favourite why? Because I'm a nerd.

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    Fun MPG anecdote: modded 2000 Chevy Metro 1.0 5MT vs. 2018 Prius.

    I had a chance to drive both cars over the same route: Similar ambient temperatures, but weather conditions were actually worse for the Prius (drizzle, wet/damp roads, breezy).

    On gas, the Prius reported 3.0 L/100 km = 78 mpg US over ~95 km.

    That's most of the time on cruise control, on back roads/scenic route, with cruise set at 75 km/h (47 mph) most of the time.

    In the Metro, I only managed 3.3 L/100 km = 70.5 mpg on the same route at similar speeds.

    The Metro's ScanGauge is calibrated pretty accurately. I don't know how accurate the Prius' factory gauge is, but even if it's off by 10%, that would still make it even with the Metro, but in worse conditions.

    Amazing, considering the Metro has lots of mechanical & aero mods on it, and the only mod I did to the Prius was pump up the tires.

    More info: EcoModder thread with details, driving impressions & efficiency testing of my friends' Prius.


    Is the higher MPG worth the cost compared to a Mirage?

    Nope. Not if saving money is your goal.

    But my friends who bought Priuses didn't buy them just to save money on gas, and would never have considered a Mirage anyway.


        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2014 Mirage ES 1.2 manual: 63.2 mpg (US) ... 26.9 km/L ... 3.7 L/100 km ... 75.9 mpg (Imp)


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    Nickname: "Rally" MirageRally's Avatar
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    Great review! Thanks for going into great detail
    Interests: Rallying/Drifting/Cars/Motorcycles

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    Senior Member Dodge Aries K's Avatar
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    I had a few Prii. A 2005 I traded a garbage Ram and dying Avalon for to a small dealer since it was misfiring and they were scared of it. Replaced a bad injector (kind of a common issue) with a junkyard injector and beat the ever loving snot out of it as a taxi cab for I think two years. Original battery acted up after the first year and change (I had 240,000 miles on it at that point) and I went thru a process of buying a "low mileage 2009 m/y" battery that ended up being cobbled together garbage so a dude who runs a battery repair service came down and looked at the pack so I could assemble a fraud case for the credit card company (which refunded me) and that cobbled together battery died after 6 months. The car was pretty trashed so I traded it in for a Yaris.

    We also had two 2008 Prii. One was a top model that never gave us any issues until my wife wrecked it. The other one I sold to a good friend of mine and he still drives it to this day. I think it has almost 200K on it now. No issues ever for me or him.
    -Karl B. No Mirages currently...

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    Quote Originally Posted by MetroMPG View Post
    Fun MPG anecdote: modded 2000 Chevy Metro 1.0 5MT vs. 2018 Prius.

    I had a chance to drive both cars over the same route: Similar ambient temperatures, but weather conditions were actually worse for the Prius (drizzle, wet/damp roads, breezy).

    On gas, the Prius reported 3.0 L/100 km = 78 mpg US over ~95 km.

    That's most of the time on cruise control, on back roads/scenic route, with cruise set at 75 km/h (47 mph) most of the time.

    In the Metro, I only managed 3.3 L/100 km = 70.5 mpg on the same route at similar speeds.
    Any idea why the Prius won? At constant speed of 75km/h, it won't have much benefit of it's hybrid. So what remains is a heaver car with a larger frontal area.

        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2013 Space Star Cleartec Intense 1.0 manual: 55.7 mpg (US) ... 23.7 km/L ... 4.2 L/100 km ... 66.9 mpg (Imp)


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    Quote Originally Posted by Space Wolf View Post
    Any idea why the Prius won? At constant speed of 75km/h, it won't have much benefit of it's hybrid. So what remains is a heaver car with a larger frontal area.
    Regenerative braking, Slightly lower coefficient of drag, and combined with a 1.8l 4 cylinder engine that is probably just slightly more efficient at optimal RPM.

        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2019 Mirage ES 1.2 automatic: 38.8 mpg (US) ... 16.5 km/L ... 6.1 L/100 km ... 46.5 mpg (Imp)


  8. #6
    The Prius engine is a LOT more thermally efficient than the decades old Suzuki 1.0. Plus the CVT is optimally geared at all speeds vs. the 5MT.

    The Prius engine also has zero parasitic losses -- no belt-driven accessories! Much more efficient: water pump is electric; "alternator" is a DC-DC converter; steering is electric; AC compressor is electric (which I didn't have on).

    Also, it's a bit of a myth that hybrid features are inactive on the highway. EG: the Prius engine shuts off as soon as load drops (like on descending grades), even at speeds up to ~100 km/h, if I recall. I'm sure I even saw the ICE shut off for brief periods on some stretches that appeared level to my eye.

    Plus, the engine is Atkinson cycle vs. the Metro's Otto cycle. So, low torque, but high efficiency. If you need more torque than the engine can provide (eg. hills, passing), the electric side helps out.

    And Mirageman is right: the Prius has a larger frontal area, but a lower drag coefficient. Cd * A is the key, so they may be closer than expected.

        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2014 Mirage ES 1.2 manual: 63.2 mpg (US) ... 26.9 km/L ... 3.7 L/100 km ... 75.9 mpg (Imp)


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    These Priuseses that you guys are driving and talking about came from development during my time spent with Toyota in design. I take 100% credit for everything Toyota did during that time! J/K.

    Working for Toyota was by far my favorite engineering job. They were awesome for any car guy who was willing to be dedicated to his job and to Toyota. Before I went there, my redneck friends told me I was going to hate it. "Because Toyota makes you work hard and work long hours." What a bunch is sissies! Yes they did! I worked hard and worked long hours! But the flip side of that coin is that Toyota and the Japanese guys (managers) that I worked with made their appreciation of my efforts (and everyone's efforts) KNOWN to us. Those that were too lazy to do work or complained about the hours, they made it known to them also ... by pushing them out. I never had a job I loved so much since then. But the wife disliked (that's putting it nicely) living in Michigan. And we had no family up north. So I had to for the sake of my family move back down south. Oh well.

    Anywho - Even though the Prius R&D was handled strictly out of Japan, us folks at TTC at that time were made privy to a lot of what was going on. They said that many customers (not just Americans) said that they wished their Gen 1 Prius would try to run more time / more speed as electric only. And that subsequent Prius' aim was to do just that. I drove a Gen 1 Prius pool car and I remember that it was the only CVT car I ever drove that the CVT behaved exactly as I thought a CVT should. Even if sometimes it may be a bit annoying, it still did exactly as what a CVT should do to take advantage of mpg and power.

    Toyota did a bang up job to listen to their customer and tried their darndest to meet customer expectations as best as possible within the confines of capability, legality and following regulations. They simply are the best. Then I went to Hyundai-Kia and laughed and laughed and laughed for 7 years at how stupid a company can be. And H-K is not as bad as most Euro trash auto companies.

    That's my $0.02, from direct experience in automotive engineering development.

    I didn't have a lot of concern with buying a Mitsubishi since the company is Japanese. I love the Japanese mindset and their respect to one another. And I figure if Mitsubishi is trying to beat Toyota (and I'm sure they are), then their vehicles would be better for it. H-K tries to beat Toyota by doing everything that Toyota does ... copying them as best they can. All OEMs do that to an extent, H-K took it to a whole new level. I used to race motorcycles, and you could never beat anyone into a corner if you were following them. Meaning, you had to use a different line / path. H-K does not get that analogy, at least they didn't when I was there.


    7milesout

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        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2020 Mirage ES 1.2 manual: 42.4 mpg (US) ... 18.0 km/L ... 5.6 L/100 km ... 50.9 mpg (Imp)


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  12. #8
    Too bad the Prius isn't selling anymore: the Prius V was cancelled & the Prius C was cancelled.

    On the other hand, the Rav4 hybrid & plug-in hybrid are selling like hotcakes. So the technological & manufacturing expertise gained through 20+ years of Prius development will keep finding its way into lots of driveways, even as the hatchback sales drop off.

    And the updated Sienna minivan is hybrid-only as of this year. I'm sure they'll add an optional plug / PRIME trim to it too.

        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2014 Mirage ES 1.2 manual: 63.2 mpg (US) ... 26.9 km/L ... 3.7 L/100 km ... 75.9 mpg (Imp)


  13. #9
    [QUOTE=7milesout;122433]These Priuseses that you guys are driving and talking about came from development during my time spent with Toyota in design. I take 100% credit for everything Toyota did during that time! J/K.

    Working for Toyota was by far my favorite engineering job. They were awesome for any car guy who was willing to be dedicated to his job and to Toyota. Before I went there, my redneck friends told me I was going to hate it. "Because Toyota makes you work hard and work long hours." What a bunch is sissies! Yes they did! I worked hard and worked long hours! But the flip side of that coin is that Toyota and the Japanese guys (managers) that I worked with made their appreciation of my efforts (and everyone's efforts) KNOWN to us. Those that were too lazy to do work or complained about the hours, they made it known to them also ... by pushing them out. I never had a job I loved so much since then. But the wife disliked (that's putting it nicely) living in Michigan. And we had no family up north. So I had to for the sake of my family move back down south. Oh well.

    Anywho - Even though the Prius R&D was handled strictly out of Japan, us folks at TTC at that time were made privy to a lot of what was going on. They said that many customers (not just Americans) said that they wished their Gen 1 Prius would try to run more time / more speed as electric only. And that subsequent Prius' aim was to do just that. I drove a Gen 1 Prius pool car and I remember that it was the only CVT car I ever drove that the CVT behaved exactly as I thought a CVT should. Even if sometimes it may be a bit annoying, it still did exactly as what a CVT should do to take advantage of mpg and power.

    Toyota did a bang up job to listen to their customer and tried their darndest to meet customer expectations as best as possible within the confines of capability, legality and following regulations. They simply are the best. Then I went to Hyundai-Kia and laughed and laughed and laughed for 7 years at how stupid a company can be. And H-K is not as bad as most Euro trash auto companies.

    That's my $0.02, from direct experience in automotive engineering development.

    I didn't have a lot of concern with buying a Mitsubishi since the company is Japanese. I love the Japanese mindset and
    Last edited by Fummins; 02-14-2021 at 12:45 AM.

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        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2014 Mirage SE wussie cvt edition. 1.2 automatic: 37.7 mpg (US) ... 16.0 km/L ... 6.2 L/100 km ... 45.3 mpg (Imp)


  14. #10
    Senior Member dspace9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MetroMPG View Post
    Too bad the Prius isn't selling anymore: the Prius V was cancelled & the Prius C was cancelled.
    No, Prius is not cancelled. Toyota's still selling 2021 Prius' on their Canadian website. The Prius C subcompact is gone.

    For me, I couldn't justify buying a $28,850 vehicle that gets 4.9 L/100 km's fuel economy, and my 1/3 cost $12,495 Mirage, gets 5.1 L/100 km's. I guess they are apple to oranges.. with the Prius being a more substantial vehicle.


    Toyota makes nice cars, but with tacky and odd interiors. Mitsubishi is basically like getting a Sony.. but paying the price of a Sanyo.

    I'm also hesitant to buy more battery operated cars, machinery, phones, whatever. All those precious metals have the same potentiality for exploitation issues as the diamond industry, and the coco puff industry. Dirty stuff, not mined by UAW workers

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        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2014 Mirage ES 1.2 manual: 42.2 mpg (US) ... 17.9 km/L ... 5.6 L/100 km ... 50.7 mpg (Imp)


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