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Thread: Wow! My Thread Closed. Goodbye All

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by MetroMPG View Post
    Let's just all keep clear of the third-rail chatter.
    That's going to be difficult for me. My whole life is third-rail chatter. My son and I saw a Spark just yesterday, I swear it looked just a touch smaller than the Mirage.


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        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2020 Mirage ES 1.2 manual: 42.4 mpg (US) ... 18.0 km/L ... 5.6 L/100 km ... 50.9 mpg (Imp)


  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacClyver View Post
    Scientific fact is NOT political.

    Closing DottandDolore's previous thread did seem quite preemptive and heavyhanded.
    Wouldn't that depend on if that hand was weighed on an imperial scale or a metric scale? Perhaps it was heavier handed in Europe than it was in the U.S...

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        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2020 Mirage ES 1.2 manual: 42.4 mpg (US) ... 18.0 km/L ... 5.6 L/100 km ... 50.9 mpg (Imp)


  3. #13
    All my vehicles that had the lieometer gauges displayed either l/100km or US mpg. My current 05 dodge, 02 Dodge, 04 Chev, and mirages were all like that.

    But I had a 94 thunderbird with the semi auto temp controls and it only showed Celcius, in order to switch the measurement you had to replace the heater controls. They were ahead of their time and still are...Or something.

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        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2014 Mirage SE wussie cvt edition. 1.2 automatic: 37.7 mpg (US) ... 16.0 km/L ... 6.2 L/100 km ... 45.3 mpg (Imp)


  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by MetroMPG View Post
    Somehow I missed the drama.

    The decisions the moderators make around here are never personal.

    This is a fantastic international community of people with diverse political & religious & ?? beliefs... with a common enthusiasm for the little Mirage/Space Star/etc.

    We, your benevolent dictators, have made a choice to actively discourage hot-button topics in the forum because they only serve to fracture the group (and distract people from the fact that I just bought ANOTHER one of these crapcans).

    So, sorry if anyone thinks that a moderated post or thread is an affront to you personally or your rights. (The forum server doesn't even live in the land of Freedom Fries!)

    DottandDolores - it'll be unfortunate if you leave us. I hope you reconsider.

    Let's just all keep clear of the third-rail chatter.
    I honestly don't think the closing of DottandDolores' last thread "My Mirage and our opinions" was handled correctly. It could have been used to address their concerns & guide all of us in a better direction instead. DottandDolores may have opened the door for that to happen, & I commend Eggman for making an attempt to do that.

    As far as the other thread that was closed goes - I learned Germans pay a lot for gas, & the Earth may not be flat after all. The rest of it I don't take too seriously. I can read an opinion of someone else and not be offended. People are entitled to be wrong, too!

    When discussing an economy car (it's biggest strength), the topic of gas prices are going to come up. Gas prices are not immune to government policies, taxation, & such. I honestly don't feel the discussion of fuel prices, & how they may impact the perception/sales of Mirage is off topic.

    The $9.51/gallon thread went down a rabbit hole. I can look past all that & still focus on what's important. It made me research our federal gas has been 18.4 cent/gallon since 1993. I didn't know that, but I don't know a lot of things. If that 18.4 cents changes some day, I have something new to complain about.

  5. #15
    Senior Member Cobrajet's Avatar
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    Here is a graph showing the predictions of various climate models (lines) versus actual recorded data (blue dots) over the last 40 or so years.



    It might be helpful to keep it in mind the next time someone here says, "NEIN, NEIN, NEIN! Ze theory ist perfect!! Period! Ze science ist flawless! Period! Ze discussion is over! Period!!! Ve are all doomed unless ve pay nine dollars und fifty-vun cents for a litre of petrol!!!! PERIOD!"

    It seems there are people here who are fine with the topic of this discussion, but not fine with being disagreed with. That is not how forums work, mein Herr...

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  7. #16
    Senior Member MacClyver's Avatar
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    True, climate models are complex formulas they aren’t end all be alls. How much carbon can our planet capture? How much Methane is melting out of the permafrost, how much biomass is lost as poor Brazilians illegally log out and form cattle ranches in the Amazon protected region? How much will increasing aridness dry out lands causing forest fires simultaneously producing CO2 and reducing its ability to be reabsorbed. These are all things that need to be estimated, all creating vectors for more and more uncertainty. Predicting the future is inexact but the data that has been set in stone thus far already has the answers we need. Yes, the rate is still slow but half the total warming today from preindustrial levels has happened since 1980… 40 years having equal effect versus 250!

    It hasn't gotten acutely bad yet, and the fact that we have a large planet with a massive inertia required to change conditions we should be grateful. The carbon cycle is not a single cycle but two. First you have your everyday carbon what plants, animals and fungi take advantage of. The second is the much slower moving underground and mostly out of reach ancient carbon. The planet came to equilibrium, very long ago; this equilibrium is what current life evolved within, what we built our civilization upon. The last time CO2 was this high 20 million years ago. Antarctica despite being in largely the same physical place was then covered in forests. The only reason right now is any different is because human civilization has pumped the ancient carbon into the everyday carbon cycle in a geological instant, 300 years is nothing compared to dealing with tens of thousands of years. Yes that’s right, if the climate equalizes even where it is today all of Greenland and Antarctica's ice WILL melt and everything under 200 feet elevation today will be underwater. That of course will take thousands of years to fully realize but we can prevent that future from locking in. The force is there the wheel just hasn't had time to get rolling yet. If we stopped right now and from now on altered our environment in a net zero emissions way the world would eventually stabilize similar to the way it was 20 million years ago. This would be disruptive but not entirely catastrophic. The problem lies in that we aren't stopping where we are, carbon emissions continue to rise. Yes it IS vital to plants, but beyond 300 ppm more carbon doesn't help plants any extra. We continue to burn coal, oil and release carbon dioxide as we make limestone suitable for cement production. The oceans have absorbed carbon dioxide to the point where carbonic acid is meaningfully harming corals and altering the balance of marine life. Record arctic heat waves caused by the polar vortex destabilizing as the cold sink created by the arctic ice cap shrinks. The polar vortex destabilizing is also what brought extremely cold air to Texas back in February a place that it turns out was not ready for the cold like WI or OR. I'm sure all the adamant deniers haven't got this far and are saying screw me now. When Seattle in 2080 feels like LA today our descendants will blame us for not doing everything we could to prevent it. Civilizations act of pulling ancient carbon from the ground, to burn and power the industrialization of our lives, to create ever useful omnipresent plastic that only degrades into tinier and tinier fragments… These things were done creating economic benefit, exploiting the common good which was the natural equilibrium our planet had. Assuming that we can continue as is today banking on having financial incentive to mechanically remove truly enormous quantities of CO2 from the atmosphere quicker than we put it there to begin with is an extraordinarily risky bet. We are at the bottom of the exponential curve now just before it starts to rocket up. One fact or another can be disproven or argued against, but all the evidence points towards things getting out of hand within this century. One of the ONLY things other than us taking decisive action that could possibly change that would be if the Yellowstone caldera suddenly decided to have a mega-eruption and cause a volcanic winter. Also basically ending North America… On that note another point towards being a manmade problem is true volcanoes access that ancient carbon as well, but volcanic ash increases our planets albedo reflecting more of the suns radiation back into space. Even if it was largely a natural problem wouldn’t mean we shouldn’t minimize our own impact to prevent it from being worse than it had to be.

    Anyways I'm sure I long since lost anyone that didn't agree with the science already. I'm only going to school for Environmental Science after all, I've only read this I'm not an actual practicing scientist yet. The data does not lie, if you take in all the information with an open mind it all points that way. Sure you can say it's not definitively proven the same way fender benders cause bumper replacements as it's on a massive scale. The fundamental workings of Physics and Chemistry don't care if you're in denial. The planet isn't going to vaporize into empty space if it warms even 100 degrees Celsius. This is about us, and our descendants, the future of presently evolved life in general.

    Go ahead hate me, I'm a Geo Metro loving troll here anyways. If that gets even one person to open their eyes to pour through more data to reassess their conclusions it'd be worth it.


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  9. #17
    Senior Member Cobrajet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacClyver View Post
    True, climate models are complex formulas they aren’t end all be alls. How much carbon can our planet capture? How much Methane is melting out of the permafrost, how much biomass is lost as poor Brazilians illegally log out and form cattle ranches in the Amazon protected region? How much will increasing aridness dry out lands causing forest fires simultaneously producing CO2 and reducing its ability to be reabsorbed. These are all things that need to be estimated, all creating vectors for more and more uncertainty. Predicting the future is inexact but the data that has been set in stone thus far already has the answers we need. Yes, the rate is still slow but half the total warming today from preindustrial levels has happened since 1980… 40 years having equal effect versus 250!

    It hasn't gotten acutely bad yet, and the fact that we have a large planet with a massive inertia required to change conditions we should be grateful. The carbon cycle is not a single cycle but two. First you have your everyday carbon what plants, animals and fungi take advantage of. The second is the much slower moving underground and mostly out of reach ancient carbon. The planet came to equilibrium, very long ago; this equilibrium is what current life evolved within, what we built our civilization upon. The last time CO2 was this high 20 million years ago. Antarctica despite being in largely the same physical place was then covered in forests. The only reason right now is any different is because human civilization has pumped the ancient carbon into the everyday carbon cycle in a geological instant, 300 years is nothing compared to dealing with tens of thousands of years. Yes that’s right, if the climate equalizes even where it is today all of Greenland and Antarctica's ice WILL melt and everything under 200 feet elevation today will be underwater. That of course will take thousands of years to fully realize but we can prevent that future from locking in. The force is there the wheel just hasn't had time to get rolling yet. If we stopped right now and from now on altered our environment in a net zero emissions way the world would eventually stabilize similar to the way it was 20 million years ago. This would be disruptive but not entirely catastrophic. The problem lies in that we aren't stopping where we are, carbon emissions continue to rise. Yes it IS vital to plants, but beyond 300 ppm more carbon doesn't help plants any extra. We continue to burn coal, oil and release carbon dioxide as we make limestone suitable for cement production. The oceans have absorbed carbon dioxide to the point where carbonic acid is meaningfully harming corals and altering the balance of marine life. Record arctic heat waves caused by the polar vortex destabilizing as the cold sink created by the arctic ice cap shrinks. The polar vortex destabilizing is also what brought extremely cold air to Texas back in February a place that it turns out was not ready for the cold like WI or OR. I'm sure all the adamant deniers haven't got this far and are saying screw me now. When Seattle in 2080 feels like LA today our descendants will blame us for not doing everything we could to prevent it. Civilizations act of pulling ancient carbon from the ground, to burn and power the industrialization of our lives, to create ever useful omnipresent plastic that only degrades into tinier and tinier fragments… These things were done creating economic benefit, exploiting the common good which was the natural equilibrium our planet had. Assuming that we can continue as is today banking on having financial incentive to mechanically remove truly enormous quantities of CO2 from the atmosphere quicker than we put it there to begin with is an extraordinarily risky bet. We are at the bottom of the exponential curve now just before it starts to rocket up. One fact or another can be disproven or argued against, but all the evidence points towards things getting out of hand within this century. One of the ONLY things other than us taking decisive action that could possibly change that would be if the Yellowstone caldera suddenly decided to have a mega-eruption and cause a volcanic winter. Also basically ending North America… On that note another point towards being a manmade problem is true volcanoes access that ancient carbon as well, but volcanic ash increases our planets albedo reflecting more of the suns radiation back into space. Even if it was largely a natural problem wouldn’t mean we shouldn’t minimize our own impact to prevent it from being worse than it had to be.

    Anyways I'm sure I long since lost anyone that didn't agree with the science already. I'm only going to school for Environmental Science after all, I've only read this I'm not an actual practicing scientist yet. The data does not lie, if you take in all the information with an open mind it all points that way. Sure you can say it's not definitively proven the same way fender benders cause bumper replacements as it's on a massive scale. The fundamental workings of Physics and Chemistry don't care if you're in denial. The planet isn't going to vaporize into empty space if it warms even 100 degrees Celsius. This is about us, and our descendants, the future of presently evolved life in general.

    Go ahead hate me, I'm a Geo Metro loving troll here anyways. If that gets even one person to open their eyes to pour through more data to reassess their conclusions it'd be worth it.
    This soliloquy could have been cut-and-pasted from any IPCC 'Summary For Policymakers' report circa 1999. I am sure this was before your time, but it was not before mine. I took a couple Environmental Science classes in 1999, and guess what I learned?

    We should all be dead by now.

    This is the problem...people have been paying attention for the last 20 years and the doom hasn't matched the gloom. It is not an arcane subject anymore. The idea that the earth will be uninhabitable for our children in 2060 unless we all agree to raise our own taxes and live in solar-powered mud huts right now has been around for a long time...along with many other arbitrary 'points-of-no-return'. It is absurd to suggest that we are all doomed if CO2 eventually makes up .040% of the atmosphere instead of .030% (not made up - these are the actual CO2 increases we are supposed to panic over). As to warming, there are many other factors involved besides nano-level changes in atmospheric CO2 levels. It is my understanding that climate scientists just recognized THE SUN as a possible contributing factor.

    You can only tell people the sky is falling for about 25 years before they stop running, look up, and see that it isn't.
    Last edited by Cobrajet; 06-18-2021 at 09:04 AM.

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  11. #18
    Come on, enough already with this topic. Third rail. Off limits.

    It's easy: just don't type.

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        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2014 Mirage ES 1.2 manual: 63.2 mpg (US) ... 26.9 km/L ... 3.7 L/100 km ... 75.9 mpg (Imp)


  12. #19
    Senior Member Cobrajet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by foama View Post
    @ DottandDolores and whoever it may concern:
    This is so unfortunate and equally unnecessary.
    I did not see you (or me either) involved in any political discussion of any sort or insult anybody, rather the opposite was the case!
    I refused to enter into, and get involved in a discussion somebody was trying to start by disputing long established facts. As far as I am concerned, I will never allow myself to be drawn into an idiotic argument about if germs or viruses really exist, if the world is flat and you can fall off the disc, or rather if any other long established and fully undisputable scientific fact might be valid or not.
    Yes, the earth is a globe, and I flatly refuse to argue with anybody who disagrees. This should be standard behavior for anybody past grade six. Period.

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  14. #20
    Ok, technically you didn't type anything... but come on.


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