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Thread: Trailer MPG experiment, or pickup truck?

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by PityOnU View Post
    are eager to confrontationally waggle their middle finger to perceived authority just for the sake of it.
    I never intended my actions to be a confrontational waggle of my middle finger, to any authority or to anyone else. Sorry if it reads that way. The best reasoning I could say I did it was, as sort of a demonstration as to just how good this (as you say) best kept secret in the auto industry is. I'm in agreement, it is a well kept secret.

    Sorry to anyone I offended with this whole thread ... or at least with my one sentence about an insurmountable wreckless clutch destroying hazard that some (I didn't say all) may think it to be. My apoligies.


    7milesout


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        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2020 Mirage ES 1.2 manual: 42.4 mpg (US) ... 18.0 km/L ... 5.6 L/100 km ... 50.9 mpg (Imp)


  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by 7milesout View Post
    or at least with my one sentence about an insurmountable wreckless clutch destroying hazard that some (I didn't say all) may think it to be. My apoligies.
    This has been discussed before.

    The problem isn’t just that towing with the Mirage is hard on the drivetrain, though that is definitely a real thing. That aspect really only affects the owner of the vehicle and how they are willing to deal with the wear and tear and expense of replacing overpriced parts (I wouldn't expect damages caused by towing to be covered under warranty.)

    Another area of concern is insurance. Since the Mirage is not rated for towing, it is not clear if any accident would be covered by an insurance company. That experiment could get very expensive to the insured not only to cover their own losses but the losses of others.

    Which brings up the safety of other motorists. The Mirage was neither designed for nor rated by its manufacturer for towing. It lacks weight and size that contributes to stability. In less than ideal traffic conditions a trailer can overcome the towing Mirage and cause the two to jackknife and/or flip the Mirage (again, exacerbated by its light weight and dimensions meaning wheelbase and track width.) The brakes on the Mirage aren't designed to handle a trailer load. By the testimony of some on the forum who have showed interest in 'upgrading', the brakes are barely adequate for the Mirage and its occupants alone, much less with the added load of a trailer. The tires on the Mirage aren't rated for towing. The suspension isn't designed for towing (think ball joints, A-arms, rear suspension, all points where these components tie into the body of the car.) Any these parts could be overstressed, even momentarily, to catastrophic failure.

    Vehicle dynamics are affected by a number of things. I know I don't have to explain it to you 7milesout but it bears covering in discussions like these. When braking in a forward motion, vehicle weight is transferred off the rear axle and to the forward axle (this doesn't account for cornering, just straight-ahead motion.) Hard braking can have a significant impact on rear axle traction and stability. Depending on the hitch height the weight of a trailer can contribute to lifting the rear axle in panic braking situations, causing the rear wheels to lose contact with or otherwise seriously reduce available traction. This is what leads to jackknifes and rollovers. It is my understanding that this is why hitch height is so important. The trailer should sit level when hitched to the tow vehicle. If the trailer sits nose-up, it could contribute to lifting the rear axle of the tow vehicle under hard braking situations and thus loss of traction. I'm no expert on the matter, just going by my understanding here.

    Respectfully, I understand the drive to do stuff like this. It's fun to experiment. It's fun to save money learning a new use for a tool outside of its original design intent. For a screwdriver and a hammer, there's not much being risked. The risk evaluation changes dramatically when done on public roads putting others at risk. This is not unlike the reason why we have racetracks - keep the risky behavior off of public roads.

    All this just to illustrate the fact that this goes far beyond risking damage to one's own vehicle, whether it be the clutch or any other component. If you want to use your property in that way, that's up to you. It becomes a greater problem when it involves others. Sorry if this is offensive to anyone, it is just another way of looking at this.

    Regards.

        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2015 Mirage ES 1.2 manual: 49.6 mpg (US) ... 21.1 km/L ... 4.7 L/100 km ... 59.5 mpg (Imp)


  3. #33
    Next time tow a fifth wheel. I hear they are safer to tow.

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        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2014 Mirage SE wussie cvt edition. 1.2 automatic: 37.7 mpg (US) ... 16.0 km/L ... 6.2 L/100 km ... 45.3 mpg (Imp)


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  5. #34
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    A follow up to this OUTSTANDING thread.

    I went up to my dad's house again. I have signed it over to my sister. It is her house now. She wanted his computer / computer desk / file cabinet out. So I used the Blueberry and towed 5,000 pounds worth of crap back to my house. OK, I jest.

    I took my dad's pickup up there and back. It is a 2003 GMC Sierra 2WD SCSB 4.8L V8 4 speed automagic.

    I stopped on my way out of town and dinosaur-juiced it to the first click with 87 octane. Then I stopped at a dinosaur-juice station near my dad's / sister's house to get an accurate interstate towing mpg, and juiced it to the first click again.

    • Heading Northbound.
    • Empty Trailer.
    • Trailer Gate: Strapped flat down to the trailer floor.
    • Truck Tailgate Up.
    • Holding at the Speed Limit everywhere.
    • 19.4 mpg.


    Did a little around town driving taking care of some Executor bidness.

    But then stopped on my way out of town and dinosaur-juiced it at the same place, to the first click with 87 octane. Got back in town and stopped at the same place I did when I left, and filled to the first click.

    • Heading Southbound.
    • Maybe 800 lbs of furniture.
    • Trailer Gate Up.
    • Truck Tailgate Up.
    • Holding at the Speed Limit everywhere.
    • 16.8 mpg


    A couple notes. I think the main mpg loss was due to wind drag of the trailer gate. The weight's main mpg loss contribution is going to be accelerating and pulling hills. I'm very steady on the speed. The weather and traffic were clear on both runs.

    I think my truck would have matched the north run and beat the south run. Plus my truck is mo' perdier.

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        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2020 Mirage ES 1.2 manual: 42.4 mpg (US) ... 18.0 km/L ... 5.6 L/100 km ... 50.9 mpg (Imp)


  6. #35
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    Towing Experiment #2...

    I finally got an opportunity to put the Blueberry to a real towing test. The towing specifications:

    Trailer: Utility 5' x 10'; Weight ~875 pounds.
    Load: ATV 400cc 4x4; Weight 615 pounds (according to the Owner's Manual) + a rear seat back attachment and some items inside ... I'll guess 625 pounds.

    Total Towed Weight: 1,500 pounds. Wow, I didn't realize it was this much until just now.

    Before I towed this weight, I studied up again about load placement for stability, tongue weight, yada yada yada. The YT video I watch suggested that a perfectly balanced load was most stabile. But in the past, I had heard that adding 15% of the load applied to the trailer as tongue weight, was the right way of doing things. The YT video said that adding some amount to of the towed load to the tongue weight wasn't so detrimental. Due to the Mirage's ability to handle a tongue load, I decided to split the difference.

    I measured the weight of the tongue at the front landing gear on a weight scale. It is really close to 70 pounds. 68 to 70 pounds. I centered the ATV on the trailer and then inched it forward until I hit 100 pounds. That's a bit less than 5% of the ATVs weight. Less than the 15% I have learned but more than the neutral weight suggested by the video.

    Tow route. I towed this combination across the south side of the Thunderdome out to a riding location southeast of Atlanta, approximately 115 miles from my home. 130 miles by the route I took to fuel up both vehicles. I-85, I-285, I-20. Total mileage towed about 250 miles.

    Ratings / Feedback:

    Handling: With only that amount of tongue weight and only myself in the Mirage, it did astonishingly well. No bottoming. The rear shocks still dampened out conditions very well. No complaints. Left and right transitions and turns were good, as expected.

    Trailer Sway: NONE.

    Braking: It was as expected. It never hurts to have more brakes. I never had a situation where I had to jam on the brakes. I stayed away from the back of all other cars ... which was easy, as I just went slower than everyone else.

    Power: This is where it sucked. I had made up my mind to only try to go 65 mph. No faster. The video clearly made the point that faster speeds decreased stability. So I was content to keep it to 65 mph max. And I did. Due to the size of the ATV, I was not able to put the ramp gate down, it had to stay up like a sail in the wind.

    I just dropped windows to regulate my comfort and kept the AC off. I used the cruise control as much as I could. On the way out there (east), it was cooler and the wind was gently blowing to the east, so it wasn't so bad.
    It would hold speed decently on the most gentle bunny slopes. But any hill even slightly greater than a bunny hill it was dropping speed. I would have to shift down.

    On the way there, I averaged about 29.5 mpg indicated, about 27.5 mpg.

    The drive back was way more difficult. I wanted to make it back to the same gas station near my house to refuel everything but it didn't make it. It was much warmer and I had just a small headwind (judged by flags and such as I drove). It wasn't much of a headwind, but it mattered. I had to shift down to 4th many more times and it was sucking fuel down much more rapidly. At some point I dropped my speed down to 60 mph, and just ran 4th gear. This did not seem dangerous. I stayed in the far right lane out of the way.

    My estimate is that the resistance was 65% based on wind drag and 35% based on towed weight. The ATV and the rear gate created quite a lot of wind drag. I hit a few backroads on the way home (my route varied a bit due to the early stop for gas on the way back). The backroads were very pleasant. The power to maintain up to 50 mph was adequate. I would say I probably only got about 21 mpg on the route back (on the interstate).

    Overall mpg: 25.7 mpg


    Final Conclusion

    This tow was "uncomfortable" for me. I would have been better off using either pickup truck. My Sierra would have probably gotten 17 or 18 mpg, but would have been much more secure and pleasant for this tow job. A small 6 or 7 mpg penalty for complete comfort & safety ... it's well worth that. It would have had zero issues at 65 mph on the interstate. If I'm ever needing to use this utility trailer where an interstate run with the rear gate up is required, I will not be using the Mirage. It just doesn't have the power to make this task pleasant.

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        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2020 Mirage ES 1.2 manual: 42.4 mpg (US) ... 18.0 km/L ... 5.6 L/100 km ... 50.9 mpg (Imp)


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  8. #36
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    Fold up trailer ramp gates like that are handy but man they make any trailer 75x worse to pull. Would love to see the test redone with the gate removed...
    Resident Tire Engineer

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        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2014 Mirage ES 1.2 manual: 44.4 mpg (US) ... 18.9 km/L ... 5.3 L/100 km ... 53.3 mpg (Imp)


  9. #37
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    I've got that ramp modified where it will lay down flat forward. But the ATV wouldn't move forward far enough out of the way to lay the ramp down. And of course the ramp is needed for loading / unloading. I got 34.5 mpg one time towing that trailer with nothing on it and the gate laid down forward. It had no problems on any hills with the empty trailer and the gate laid down flat foward.

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        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2020 Mirage ES 1.2 manual: 42.4 mpg (US) ... 18.0 km/L ... 5.6 L/100 km ... 50.9 mpg (Imp)


  10. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by 7milesout View Post
    I've got that ramp modified where it will lay down flat forward. But the ATV wouldn't move forward far enough out of the way to lay the ramp down. And of course the ramp is needed for loading / unloading. I got 34.5 mpg one time towing that trailer with nothing on it and the gate laid down forward. It had no problems on any hills with the empty trailer and the gate laid down flat foward.
    There are times I would like to replace my 4' x 8' tilt bed trailer with an aluminum 5' x 10' trailer with a rear ramp gate that folds in half. I would be lost without my trailer. I used it to help someone move about 30 miles one way last week, & I did four trips with my trailer. We also packed my Forester & her CR-V full on each trip.

    I have to take the wooden sides off to fit my Kawasaki Mule 610 on the trailer. I like the sides for hauling firewood, & I can haul a yard of gravel with ease, too. A tilt bed doesn't require a rear folding gate. I drive up and the tilt bed, it comes back down, & locks in place. It's been a handy little trailer. Bought it in 1994 for $387. It doesn't look like much, but I also don't cringe when they dump two large buckets of gravel into it either.
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  12. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by 7milesout View Post
    I've got that ramp modified where it will lay down flat forward. But the ATV wouldn't move forward far enough out of the way to lay the ramp down. And of course the ramp is needed for loading / unloading. I got 34.5 mpg one time towing that trailer with nothing on it and the gate laid down forward. It had no problems on any hills with the empty trailer and the gate laid down flat foward.
    I have used my Mirage tow hitch for my rear bike rack the past few weeks, & it's been great for that. I don't sense much drag or change in mpg. That's all I plan on using my Mirage hitch for. I have to justify keeping the old Forester by towing other stuff!

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    That's a heckuva place for a deer to take a nap. Those deers up there (yes, I said deers), are friggin huge. They're like moose. The deer down south here are like really skinny and tall German Shepherds.

    When I moved to Michigan, I was amazed at how big the deer and the corn was.


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        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2020 Mirage ES 1.2 manual: 42.4 mpg (US) ... 18.0 km/L ... 5.6 L/100 km ... 50.9 mpg (Imp)


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