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Thread: Thoughts on the New Ford Maverick and on what your next vehicle will be

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by 7milesout View Post
    Even if that were to be true, and it might, it would be worth every single penny in premium of the Ferd. I designed there. I know what they do. They don't play games. I also designed for Hyundai-Kia. They play games. I threw up every night.
    In general I agree. My dad had a (fairly new) ford in the 90s and the tie rod broke while driving. He hasn't bought anything but Japanese since. I also live in a place where I know a lot of people working in the industry, though no one at Ford specifically. It's clear the other American brands definitely cut corners, where Toyota specifically definitely does not. That being said, there really isn't a new car today that likely wouldn't be able to make it to 200 k miles with preventative maintenance, and Ford does pay special attention to their trucks for reliability, which is part of the reasons its one of their only sectors that have thrived. It remains to be seen if this will transfer over to the Maverick, which honestly has more SUV DNA, but I would be willing to bet what issues may come from that car will not be from the engine. I will definitely give it time to be heavily tested though.

    The hell was happening at Hyundai that was making you puke???



  2. #62
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    Every single Person I know personally that bought a new Ford in the last 4 years (that no longer has any warranty left) will never make that mistake again lol. I've got some close friends who bought new F150 ecoboost's cause one of their wive's worked at a ferd dealer and got "employee pricing". They're the biggest pos once you gotta start paying to fix them. One truck is on it's second set of turbo's and now needs two more along with an entire engine according to ferd. The other truck isn't any better, random missfire codes for the last few years the dealer wouldn't fix, just throw new spark plugs at it every 3 months lol. Those were dealer serviced ahead of schedule from day one.

    My entire family of farmers were die hard ferd fans. Would buy a new truck ever 3-5 years. One even bought a focus for some reason. They aren't holding together like they used to needless to say.

    Does anyone remember hearing all the nice things about a 6.0 or 6.4L ferd diesel? Sure you'll find fan boys who bought one of those turd pails then had to "bullet proof" it by spending thousands on head gaskets and studs and deleting all the emissions stuff, then deal with all the other fun ferd diesel issues. These aren't normal things that could be considered normal preventative maintenance. Sure every vehicle can have it's issues, but ferd has(had) more issues than most and still do in some cases.
    I'm looking at a 2019 Ferd in the parking lot here that's gonna need it's rear main seal replaced for the second time at just over 100,000kms. There's 4 newer ferds here for some reason.... every one has had multiple alignments. They eat tires front tires, wheel bearings and ball joints. One even had the rear diff replace under warranty at around 60k kms. That's normal.

    I gotta ask, what are you basing this on: " Ford does pay special attention to their trucks for reliability"? What'd I miss?

    They sell a lot of trucks because they're typically the cheapest. Who buys cheap trucks? Large fleets who turn them over constantly before warranty is up so they don't cost them money. Makes sense. Besides, last I checked GM sold more trucks than ferd last year.

    PS, hope this doesn't come across as mean and stuff.
    Last edited by Fummins; 10-13-2021 at 11:13 PM.

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  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Spadesheart View Post
    I guess the TL;DR is what do you think your next car after the mirage will be and why?
    My next car after the Mirage will probably be another $2000 Mirage.

    New vehicles aren't in my financial plan... and I don't see that as a bad thing.

    That said, I think Ford knocked it out of the park with the Maverick, especially the base model being a hybrid. I bet they're going to sell as many as they can make.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fummins View Post
    Every single Person I know personally that bought a new Ford in the last 4 years (that no longer has any warranty left) will never make that mistake again lol. I've got some close friends who bought new F150 ecoboost's cause one of their wive's worked at a ferd dealer and got "employee pricing". They're the biggest pos once you gotta start paying to fix them. One truck is on it's second set of turbo's and now needs two more along with an entire engine according to ferd. The other truck isn't any better, random missfire codes for the last few years the dealer wouldn't fix, just throw new spark plugs at it every 3 months lol. Those were dealer serviced ahead of schedule from day one.

    My entire family of farmers were die hard ferd fans. Would buy a new truck ever 3-5 years. One even bought a focus for some reason. They aren't holding together like they used to needless to say.

    Does anyone remember hearing all the nice things about a 6.0 or 6.4L ferd diesel? Sure you'll find fan boys who bought one of those turd pails then had to "bullet proof" it by spending thousands on head gaskets and studs and deleting all the emissions stuff, then deal with all the other fun ferd diesel issues. These aren't normal things that could be considered normal preventative maintenance. Sure every vehicle can have it's issues, but ferd has(had) more issues than most and still do in some cases.
    I'm looking at a 2019 Ferd in the parking lot here that's gonna need it's rear main seal replaced for the second time at just over 100,000kms. There's 4 newer ferds here for some reason.... every one has had multiple alignments. They eat tires front tires, wheel bearings and ball joints. One even had the rear diff replace under warranty at around 60k kms. That's normal.

    I gotta ask, what are you basing this on: " Ford does pay special attention to their trucks for reliability"? What'd I miss?

    They sell a lot of trucks because they're typically the cheapest. Who buys cheap trucks? Large fleets who turn them over constantly before warranty is up so they don't cost them money. Makes sense. Besides, last I checked GM sold more trucks than ferd last year.

    PS, hope this doesn't come across as mean and stuff.
    I'd rather have to search for proof for my claims anyways. It's better not to make financial decisions based on just here say.

    Might be a bit anecdotal as I grew up in a farming area where every farmer loved them too, but they all swore by them. My dad used a ford diesel van for work that had like 400000 km when he was done, but that's also not quite the same thing.

    I just checked out the ratings on "repairpal." Not sure how scientific their method is, but by the brief description offered, it seems pretty legitimate. The issue I have with their methodology lies in variation in individual models, or years can be quite substantial and I'm not sure if that is in some way accounted for. Even so. in so far as what they say, it appears as fords truck reliability is inversely proportional to the size of their trucks. The smaller they are, the more reliable they appear to be. This fits with my anecdotal experience, as the farmers generally had F150s. On their site, for full sized trucks, the f150 ranked above average at 7 of 17, the f250 below average at 15/17 and the f350 dead last. For their Midsized trucks, The Ranger ranked 3rd place out of 7. The ranking of their larger offerings are abysmal though, but this seems to be consistent with all trucks. I am assuming this is because they use repair cost as part of their metrics, and the giants probably just cost a lot more to fix. Amusingly, whatever metrics they used had Nissans offerings near top for both.

    https://repairpal.com/reliability/fullsize-truck

    https://repairpal.com/reliability/midsize-truck

    My guess is based on the Mavericks design, the repair costs will be less substantial and less frequent as is the case with most hybrids. The ICE engine is comparatively small which would probably put it more in line with Compact SUVs. They designed this hybrid for this truck I understand so I unfortunately don't have a contemporary to compare it to, so time will tell. The integration and not having a transmission is smart though, I'm willing to bet it will work well. I understand it shares a platform with the escape which apparently scores above average on repairpal, but is obviously a sector inundated with better Japanese options. Time will just have to tell. I hope it turns out to be as good as I am hoping.

    (Interesting takeaway from Repairpal. Apparently, the most reliable vehicle type is the Subcompact SUV, followed by Compact Car, then midsize car and our vehicle type, the subcompact car in 4th. The Mirage ranks 7/21 in Subcompacts, but super high of all vehicles.)
    Last edited by Spadesheart; 10-14-2021 at 06:34 AM.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spadesheart View Post
    I'd rather have to search for proof for my claims anyways. It's better not to make financial decisions based on just here say.

    Might be a bit anecdotal as I grew up in a farming area where every farmer loved them too, but they all swore by them. My dad used a ford diesel van for work that had like 400000 km when he was done, but that's also not quite the same thing.

    I just checked out the ratings on "repairpal." Not sure how scientific their method is, but by the brief description offered, it seems pretty legitimate. The issue I have with their methodology lies in variation in individual models, or years can be quite substantial and I'm not sure if that is in some way accounted for. Even so. in so far as what they say, it appears as fords truck reliability is inversely proportional to the size of their trucks. The smaller they are, the more reliable they appear to be. This fits with my anecdotal experience, as the farmers generally had F150s. On their site, for full sized trucks, the f150 ranked above average at 7 of 17, the f250 below average at 15/17 and the f350 dead last. For their Midsized trucks, The Ranger ranked 3rd place out of 7. The ranking of their larger offerings are abysmal though, but this seems to be consistent with all trucks. I am assuming this is because they use repair cost as part of their metrics, and the giants probably just cost a lot more to fix. Amusingly, whatever metrics they used had Nissans offerings near top for both.

    https://repairpal.com/reliability/fullsize-truck

    https://repairpal.com/reliability/midsize-truck

    My guess is based on the Mavericks design, the repair costs will be less substantial and less frequent as is the case with most hybrids. The ICE engine is comparatively small which would probably put it more in line with Compact SUVs. They designed this hybrid for this truck I understand so I unfortunately don't have a contemporary to compare it to, so time will tell. The integration and not having a transmission is smart though, I'm willing to bet it will work well. I understand it shares a platform with the escape which apparently scores above average on repairpal, but is obviously a sector inundated with better Japanese options. Time will just have to tell. I hope it turns out to be as good as I am hoping.

    (Interesting takeaway from Repairpal. Apparently, the most reliable vehicle type is the Subcompact SUV, followed by Compact Car, then midsize car and our vehicle type, the subcompact car in 4th. The Mirage ranks 7/21 in Subcompacts, but super high of all vehicles.)
    Okay, that makes total sense now. Kinda. I wouldn't make too many financial decisions based on that website.

    According to the first link there(fullsize truck), the F150 is thee least reliable "1/2 ton". So less is more?

    I'd consider a used Maverick in a few years if they prove to be reliableish and dirt cheap but by then they'll probably be something else shiny I want.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MetroMPG View Post
    My next car after the Mirage will probably be another $2000 Mirage.

    New vehicles aren't in my financial plan... and I don't see that as a bad thing.

    That said, I think Ford knocked it out of the park with the Maverick, especially the base model being a hybrid. I bet they're going to sell as many as they can make.
    I agree with everything you said in the quote, 100%. You are doing YOURSELF a major good service with your mindset to buy those well used vehicles. Nobody NEEDS a new vehicle. It is a mindset thing. And if one can easily afford a new one, find, its a free country brothers.

    But spending money on vehicles is very wasteful. You are wasting far less than most. Kudos to you. And I agree with you about the Maverick too. There is no doubt that if Ford (or any American company) absolutely made their minds up that we're going to build these things RIGHT, that they could. But they don't. Toyota is not perfect. But they made up their minds years ago that they were going to do everything in their power to try to be perfect, but not at the $expense$ of a customer. Meaning, if something were going to double the cost of the Camry, but improve some aspect, that would not work. But they take that idea and the work their tails off to implement it in some manner.

    Other factories just want the vehicles built and out of their faces. A common mantra in many plants, "Don't be a squealer, ship it to the dealer." In case you don't follow that, it means, "we know it has a defect(s), but instead of going public within the plant about it and have to go through the work to stop building-in these problems, just get them out of our face and send them on down the line, because MAYBE it won't be discovered (by the dealer) and just be pushed out to a customer." That happens all day, every day. Been there, seen that. But at Toyota, they will absolutely shut down the factory if need be to STOP building-in problems. However, they do better up front planning so that the problems that are actually built in are MUCH MUCH fewer.

    Now some problems may not manifest, much. But some will. And a customer is likely going to be the one to have to deal with it. An example. H-K designed vehicles that had (and probably still do) have an electrical system that does not combat against voltage spikes. Of course this is a design issue, not a manufacturing problem. But, I made detailed powerpoint reports (it's how Hyundai-Kia did everything ... powerpoint) to explain to H-K the difference in their electrical system, and Toyota's. For reasons I'm not aware of (maybe a really crappy alternator), the early to mid Hyundai Sonatas blew bulbs (especially brake light bulbs) like a popcorn popper. Many popped bulbs before a customer ever took delivery. Some customers got so sick of replacing bulbs they just stopped replacing them. If you ever see one of these early to mid 2000's Sonatas, (they're mostly hoopties now or already in the junkyard), it's a greater than not chance that a brake light / tail light will not be working.

    There's a particular build issue one of the H-K plants suffered and I had to root cause. All based on Korean pride. But that's a lot of typing that most would fall asleep reading. But the problem was eye-opening, one in which Toyota would NEVER have ran into.

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        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2020 Mirage ES 1.2 manual: 42.5 mpg (US) ... 18.1 km/L ... 5.5 L/100 km ... 51.0 mpg (Imp)


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    Quote Originally Posted by 7milesout View Post
    I agree with everything you said in the quote, 100%. You are doing YOURSELF a major good service with your mindset to buy those well used vehicles. Nobody NEEDS a new vehicle. It is a mindset thing. And if one can easily afford a new one, find, its a free country brothers.

    But spending money on vehicles is very wasteful. You are wasting far less than most. Kudos to you. And I agree with you about the Maverick too. There is no doubt that if Ford (or any American company) absolutely made their minds up that we're going to build these things RIGHT, that they could. But they don't. Toyota is not perfect. But they made up their minds years ago that they were going to do everything in their power to try to be perfect, but not at the $expense$ of a customer. Meaning, if something were going to double the cost of the Camry, but improve some aspect, that would not work. But they take that idea and the work their tails off to implement it in some manner.

    Other factories just want the vehicles built and out of their faces. A common mantra in many plants, "Don't be a squealer, ship it to the dealer." In case you don't follow that, it means, "we know it has a defect(s), but instead of going public within the plant about it and have to go through the work to stop building-in these problems, just get them out of our face and send them on down the line, because MAYBE it won't be discovered (by the dealer) and just be pushed out to a customer." That happens all day, every day. Been there, seen that. But at Toyota, they will absolutely shut down the factory if need be to STOP building-in problems. However, they do better up front planning so that the problems that are actually built in are MUCH MUCH fewer.

    Now some problems may not manifest, much. But some will. And a customer is likely going to be the one to have to deal with it. An example. H-K designed vehicles that had (and probably still do) have an electrical system that does not combat against voltage spikes. Of course this is a design issue, not a manufacturing problem. But, I made detailed powerpoint reports (it's how Hyundai-Kia did everything ... powerpoint) to explain to H-K the difference in their electrical system, and Toyota's. For reasons I'm not aware of (maybe a really crappy alternator), the early to mid Hyundai Sonatas blew bulbs (especially brake light bulbs) like a popcorn popper. Many popped bulbs before a customer ever took delivery. Some customers got so sick of replacing bulbs they just stopped replacing them. If you ever see one of these early to mid 2000's Sonatas, (they're mostly hoopties now or already in the junkyard), it's a greater than not chance that a brake light / tail light will not be working.

    There's a particular build issue one of the H-K plants suffered and I had to root cause. All based on Korean pride. But that's a lot of typing that most would fall asleep reading. But the problem was eye-opening, one in which Toyota would NEVER have ran into.
    Mostly agree. I bought my Mirage with 28000 km at a relative premium, but I have driven it and am planning to drive it until it is either not worth fixing or my needs change. For this slight premium, I have been rewarded with reliable transportation for 170000 km + however much more I get out of it, for at least 6 years. And I don't know if this is consistent for everyone else, but my Mirage has lost about 1/5th a litre/100 km of overall efficiency yearly, so technically the early years were much more efficient. All told, it will probably even out to near $100 per month by the time I'm done, if not less. It is to be noted that, this is for a car that definitely saw the road. For those who buy a new car every time they itch, it is certainly valuable to have patience and self control. Now here's hoping the used market normalizes before I need to buy a new car.

    I don't think Hyndai fixed that bulb problem, at least not in the model years after that. My friends Hyundai has also had to change it's bulbs twice in the 2 years he's had it.

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    I canceled my Maverick order because of production problems. I had it on order since June. Ford is good with keeping people updated, but they continued to tell me there were production delays. They said that they were only giving people 1 set of keys, because of the chip shortage, then they said that my bed liner was on backorder, then they said that the floor mats would not be available, then they said that the truck would not be built with the stereo system, but would later be have to be installed by the dealer after the components come in. That was my last straw. I canceled the order and began looking for something different. I found my Mirage Hatchback Carbonite Edition. Surly a completely different vehicle from the truck, however it was inexpensive, great on gas, has enough room for my needs and it was complete. I could drive it off that lot without having anything backordered or later installed by the dealer. So far, I love the Mirage!

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    Quote Originally Posted by 570MiniMoto View Post
    I canceled my Maverick order because of production problems. I had it on order since June. Ford is good with keeping people updated, but they continued to tell me there were production delays. They said that they were only giving people 1 set of keys, because of the chip shortage, then they said that my bed liner was on backorder, then they said that the floor mats would not be available, then they said that the truck would not be built with the stereo system, but would later be have to be installed by the dealer after the components come in. That was my last straw. I canceled the order and began looking for something different. I found my Mirage Hatchback Carbonite Edition. Surly a completely different vehicle from the truck, however it was inexpensive, great on gas, has enough room for my needs and it was complete. I could drive it off that lot without having anything backordered or later installed by the dealer. So far, I love the Mirage!
    Welcome to the club! Yeah, supply chain issues notwithstanding, that's unacceptable.

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    Nice. Congrats! Could you share us pictures of your new ride? I bet it looks dope!



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