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Thread: Worn winter tires in front or rear?

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    Worn winter tires in front or rear?

    So my car came with a set of winter tires. Two are in very good shape, while two seem to be worn more. I'd say they have another winter or two of driving left in them. I'm curious about where the more worn ones should go. Right now they're in the front to help with traction as this is a front wheel drive car. But a guy at school said his tire guy says to put the worn ones up front and the better one in the back to avoid the rear of the car losing grip?

    What do you guys do? Right now the front makes sense to me, but it isn't a big deal to switch either, changing tires on this car is pretty darn easy. I think the jack almost tipped it over.



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    Senior Member dspace9's Avatar
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    I would keep the newer ones up front myself. I'm no expert but seems to be what people do. I dunno I haven't had my rear spin out as much as need traction up front when the weather gets bad.

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    Senior Member klroger's Avatar
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    New or the best tires should always go on the rear of the car. If the front of the car starts to slide, you can counteract because you can steer the front wheels. If the back of the car starts to slide, it steers you, & that rarely ends well
    https://www.tirebuyer.com/education/...-front-or-back
    I didn't know what to do, so I didn't do anything

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    That's interesting. I always assumed better tires in front. The argument for rear seems reasonable.

    However....

    If most of your cars weight is on the front tires then most of your cars stopping power is in the front. Most of my near misses in the winter involve sliding into intersections or almost hitting the car in front of me so this would be the argument for better tires in front.

    To me it seems like a tough choice. Maybe if you put your good tires in the back throw some weight back there as well for the winter!

    edited to add - it might make sense to throw some weight in the back for the winter regardless!
    Last edited by pawpaw; 10-24-2021 at 02:58 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cam123 View Post
    So my car came with a set of winter tires. Two are in very good shape, while two seem to be worn more. I'd say they have another winter or two of driving left in them. I'm curious about where the more worn ones should go. Right now they're in the front to help with traction as this is a front wheel drive car. But a guy at school said his tire guy says to put the worn ones up front and the better one in the back to avoid the rear of the car losing grip?

    What do you guys do? Right now the front makes sense to me, but it isn't a big deal to switch either, changing tires on this car is pretty darn easy. I think the jack almost tipped it over.
    Most tire experts (if there is such a thing) will say the better tires should be on the rear axle of your vehicle. I can honestly say I do the opposite of that most of the time. I currently have 4 different pairs of 165/65r14 tires.

    I started out this past spring with -
    very worn Federal SS657 up front & well worn factory Dunlop Enasaves on the rear.

    I had some longer trips about mid-summer & I switched out the very worn out Federal tires -
    currently using much newer Nexen N'Priz AH5 up front & factory Dunlop tires still on the rear.

    When I pulled the Federal tires off this summer, they were past the wear bars & somewhat done. Those tires were replaces with a new pair of Kumho Solus TA31.

    By the end of November, I will mount -
    my Nokian Nordman 7 snow tires up front, and my brand new Kumho tires on the rear axle.

    I've basically used up the original factory Dunlop pair of tires this past spring/summer/fall.

    Next spring summer, I will move the -
    Kumho tires to the front & add my Nexen tires to rear (overall these will still be relatively new). Taking care of tire rotations at the same time. The Kumho are 60,000 mile tires & the Nexen are 50,000 miles tires. I expect/hope to get some decent mileage out of both of them.

    What I do next may depend on my Nokian snow tires (this will be their 5th winter coming up). I have been super impressed on well they have been holding up. They seem to have a lot of thread left after 4 winters. Compared to other snow tires, they seem to roll quite nice, too. When my Nokian snow tires appear to be more worn down, I will use them as my rear axle winter tires for a couple winters most likely.

    My worn out/done factory Dunlop tires will be replaced & go up front for the winter months. I am not certain what I may try next? Vredestein Quatrac 5, Federal Himalaya Kattura, another pair Nokian Nordman 7, or something else maybe?

    My Mirage has to climb winter ridge roads. Traction up front is the most important feature for me. If I am concerned about my rear tires, I can slow down on curves or approach stops more cautiously.

    If I lived around flat roads, I may follow what most tire experts recommend. In my case, however, traction up front on a FWD vehicle is critical.

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    Thank you for the informative responses everyone. Mark your comment about driving up a hill stuck with me, because every time I leave the house I go up and down ~75m in elevation...it's a big hill we live on which is no issue in the summer but can get very messy come wintertime. I think I will stick with them in the front to increase the chances of making it up that hill without trouble.

    If I move somewhere flatter I may move the tires back. Thanks again everyone!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cam123 View Post
    Thank you for the informative responses everyone. Mark your comment about driving up a hill stuck with me, because every time I leave the house I go up and down ~75m in elevation...it's a big hill we live on which is no issue in the summer but can get very messy come wintertime. I think I will stick with them in the front to increase the chances of making it up that hill without trouble.

    If I move somewhere flatter I may move the tires back. Thanks again everyone!
    I am a firm believer in skinny tires for climbing snow cover hill roads. My 1990 Ford Festiva was superior to my Mirage even though it was a lighter vehicle. I credit that to the narrower 145SR12 tires. I never had snow tires for it, but it was superior to other FWD vehicles we owned during that period.

    Our former VW Golf with new snow tires up front couldn't compete with the smaller Festiva at all. I could go up & down the main ridge road to my house without issue. Meanwhile, others with minivans other FWD vehicles with wider tires had to take another route to get where they were going. People who make it about 1/2 to 3/4 of way up the hill really start to freak out. I once helped a lady turn her minivan around so that she could go back down without losing it over the gully side of the road. She was petrified. I got in my Festiva after that & drove up the rest of the hill without issue. That car always got me home. I can't say the same for my Mirage, but it does pretty good most days. Thankfully, I have a plan B (AWD Forester with great snow tires) these days!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark View Post
    I am a firm believer in skinny tires for climbing snow cover hill roads. My 1990 Ford Festiva was superior to my Mirage even though it was a lighter vehicle. I credit that to the narrower 145SR12 tires. I never had snow tires for it, but it was superior to other FWD vehicles we owned during that period.

    Our former VW Golf with new snow tires up front couldn't compete with the smaller Festiva at all. I could go up & down the main ridge road to my house without issue. Meanwhile, others with minivans other FWD vehicles with wider tires had to take another route to get where they were going. People who make it about 1/2 to 3/4 of way up the hill really start to freak out. I once helped a lady turn her minivan around so that she could go back down without losing it over the gully side of the road. She was petrified. I got in my Festiva after that & drove up the rest of the hill without issue. That car always got me home. I can't say the same for my Mirage, but it does pretty good most days. Thankfully, I have a plan B (AWD Forester with great snow tires) these days!
    Maybe snowy hill climbing has more to do with weight than the tire width? Just wondering.

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    This is one of those questions I hate as a tire "expert" (I don't know if there is such a thing either)

    The real answer is whichever one YOU feel the most comfortable with...

    The reason the rear is the tire industry answer is that unfortunately the majority of the driving public really doesn't know how to drive. If the rear end starts to slip, the majority of folks are spinning, thus any extra chance of preventing that means the better tires on the rear. Plain and simple, easy peasy.

    However, if you grew up on snow or on dirt or gravel roads or are a car "enthusiast" chances are you have a better ability to control your car in a limited traction incident. Those folks probably prefer to have the traction up front in a FWD car to improve takeoff and hill climbing as stated above.
    Resident Tire Engineer

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    Quote Originally Posted by Basic View Post
    This is one of those questions I hate as a tire "expert" (I don't know if there is such a thing either)

    The real answer is whichever one YOU feel the most comfortable with...

    The reason the rear is the tire industry answer is that unfortunately the majority of the driving public really doesn't know how to drive. If the rear end starts to slip, the majority of folks are spinning, thus any extra chance of preventing that means the better tires on the rear. Plain and simple, easy peasy.

    However, if you grew up on snow or on dirt or gravel roads or are a car "enthusiast" chances are you have a better ability to control your car in a limited traction incident. Those folks probably prefer to have the traction up front in a FWD car to improve takeoff and hill climbing as stated above.
    Very interesting subject to debate. I was hoping Basic would have some input being a tire engineer. And, I'm impressed that his opinion is so inline with my own. I'm also impressed he didn't give the standard hardline statement that either front or rear is better. I too think it depends. And I whole heartedly agree with, "most people don't know how to drive" statement.

    Yes, I think the skinny tires make a substantial difference in traction (in slick conditions). As P = F / A. The smaller the Area, the higher the Pressure. In the case of our Mirages, my opinion is that the better tires should go up front for all drivers (for winter use).

    Because I believe the first place one is going to run into traction problems is in the front of the vehicle. Stopping, starting and turning. Most likely turning. More specifically turning while accelerating or just plain going too fast. If you spin tires will accelerating and turning, it is simple enough to let off and the tires should grip again. But if one is going too fast turning, and the car slides, I think one may be in for trouble no matter where the good tires are. The chances of one "oversteering" in the winter in slick conditions is really low. Unless one is really a dumbass and just being stupid. Speaking of that, let me give you a real world example.

    My wife. While she is the kind of driver that rarely has any problems driving, she is not a "driver" at all. She's just not a risk taker. She just follows the instructions from the law, and from a vehicle maker, and that's the limit of her skill. And as such, she rarely has any issue. However, there was this one particular instance when we lived in Michigan. Over a winter, I forget why, but I believe she was giving me a ride to work one morning. In her 1990 Toyota Celica ST. 1.6L (memory) and a 5 speed. She can drive a manual pretty well and, it is SEXY. But on the way to work was a clover leaf entrance to the interstate. I have to keep my mouth shut when she drives because she doesn't like me "bossing" her. But as we approached the entrance to this clover leaf I told her something to the effect, this clover leaf is slick, you should go slower. That miffed her, and the ----- sped up! As we went around this clover leaf (to the right) I couldn't speak, and the seat fabric was up my butt-crack. The back end was completely sliding / drifting. It wasn't big, but I'd say it stepped out 6" to a foot. But thank God this clover leaf was sloped really well all the way around, and the front end tracked perfectly. OMG, I just knew we were going to go nose first into a barrier. But when she straightened up at the end of the clover leaf, the back end started following the front like magic. The saving grace was she held her (too fast) speed constant, and wasn't herky-jerky with the steering wheel. She counter-steered, but never knew it. She just naturally steered it so that the front of the car went where she intended. In her case, from rear of where her butt sits, a car doesn't even exist. Only from her and forward of her does a car even exist. This is true for many drivers and is why rear wheels get so much curb rash.

    I told her that she just about crashed us that we were sliding (and we were). But she said, "no we weren't, you're just trying to act like you were right." OMG, I still feel the panic I felt at that time, when I think about that incident. She never knew how close we were from crashing. If it weren't for proper alignment setup and the slope on that clover leaf, a crash would have happened. None of those 4 tires were all that great, and is why I suggested she slow down. I can't remember things well, but I remember that like it just happened.


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