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Thread: 7th alignment

  1. #11
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    This car had alignment checked and adjusted in 2014, rechecked every few years, and nothing has ever changed since! That said, we dont have any US or Siberian-style pot holes here.

    In this forum we have how to's. You may want to look at these:

    https://mirageforum.com/forum/showth...eck-and-adjust


    https://mirageforum.com/forum/showth...ure-and-adjust


    You can check and adjust Toe in and also camber(!) by yourself. It is also possible to measure caster, but caster is not adjustable. You need to read the instructions and follow them closely and precisely. If you don't want to do adjustments by yourself, it gives you the understanding. The same method was posted in TeamSwift around 2005 but seems to have gotten lost.



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  3. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by foama View Post
    This car had alignment checked and adjusted in 2014, rechecked every few years, and nothing has ever changed since! That said, we dont have any US or Siberian-style pot holes here.

    In this forum we have how to's. You may want to look at these:

    https://mirageforum.com/forum/showth...eck-and-adjust


    https://mirageforum.com/forum/showth...ure-and-adjust


    You can check and adjust Toe in and also camber(!) by yourself. It is also possible to measure caster, but caster is not adjustable. You need to read the instructions and follow them closely and precisely. If you don't want to do adjustments by yourself, it gives you the understanding. The same method was posted in TeamSwift around 2005 but seems to have gotten lost.
    Your links are superb! Your procedure is 100% ! Your home made camber angle guage is perfect!
    Karl

  4. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by CROSSBOLT View Post
    Mirageman, how do you KNOW it is out of alignment? I am guessing from your posts that the steering wheel is off-center left, your genius dealer tech "aligns it" and then it is off center right, right? Answer yes/ no

    Does the car drive straight, hands off, sready speed on a straight road/highway for a hundred or more feet? Answer yes/no

    Does the car require a steady steer input by you to drive straight on the same road above? Answer yes/no

    Lemme tell you something about MOST techs since 1950 and alignment machines: they generally think that if they get the indicator needles "in the green" they have it right. Not so on most settings as they should be in the green and generally matching values left and right. They care not where the steer wheel is if they get the toe set properly. Most of these guys don't even know how to "unload" the front wheels after they make adjustments that change the position of the contact patch. Some machines are built to do this but some are not. Most modern 4-wheel alignment machines do this.

    Give answers and let's see what is going on.
    1. No. Before alignment the wheel is off center. After alignment the wheel is centered. Then within the next day-week it comes back out of alignment and it varies between left and right but normally left.

    2. Hard to tell. I would say its fairly straight. 100 ft maybe not though.

    3. No. If I correct the wheel being off center the car will then go in that direction.


    Yes, I know some shops are very bad at alignments. Pepboys (three times) would get it to the most extreme barely in the green and call it good or give me no printout at all. But I have also been to two Mitsubishi dealers, and a real local alignment shop. I attached the most resent results from the dealer for reference. It seems to be the Toe always having major problems.

    Name:  alignment.jpg
Views: 224
Size:  87.6 KB

        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2019 Mirage ES 1.2 automatic: 38.8 mpg (US) ... 16.5 km/L ... 6.1 L/100 km ... 46.5 mpg (Imp)


  5. #14
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    Suspect they missed snugging tie-rod lock nuts or caster adjustment loose.

    Noticed they did not match values...just got it in the green.
    Karl

  6. #15
    We've had problems aligning stupid 2017-2019 ferd vans with the 1960's twin i-beam front ends. One van went to 3 different shops in a week and every time they said it needed to be adjusted. Eventually one shop tried the van on both of their alignment racks and said one pf their machines was out of whack and needed to be recalibrated. I don't use that shop anymore.

        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2014 Mirage SE wussie cvt edition. 1.2 automatic: 37.7 mpg (US) ... 16.0 km/L ... 6.2 L/100 km ... 45.3 mpg (Imp)


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  8. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fummins View Post
    We've had problems aligning stupid 2017-2019 ferd vans with the 1960's twin i-beam front ends. One van went to 3 different shops in a week and every time they said it needed to be adjusted. Eventually one shop tried the van on both of their alignment racks and said one pf their machines was out of whack and needed to be recalibrated. I don't use that shop anymore.
    I used to drive a F250 service van. Two of them actually. When I was a forklift tech inherited a high milage F250 with a full ashtray, crummy brakes (notice proper spelling) and pulled to the left. Had the brakes "fixed" by a Gateway tire shop and the park brake that used to work no longer worked at all. They replaced the power steering unit (the part at the other end of the steering shaft) since they said that was causing it to pull left. Had them pull the rear drums off and found the park brake cable not even hooked up! That's when I called the service manager and requested another shop.

    I was granted another shop who actually did repairs who hooked up the park brake cable and checked alignment which was way out. They actually had to remove one of the two I-beam axles and BEND it to get the camber to match the other one! The old guy who did nothing but alignments said Ford's "Better Idea" twin I-beam was bear to get right!
    Karl

  9. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mirageman38 View Post
    Name:  alignment.jpg
Views: 224
Size:  87.6 KB
    Your before alignment is not even so bad. It looks like the previous shop purposely set the toe inboard on both sides. Because that looks like mechanical intent, versus something loosening up and going bad. If things loosened up and went bad, I think the tendency would be for toe to go out / negative (not positive). The after alignment looks great. They got the toe even side to side. I don't know, but I doubt anything but toe can be adjusted.

    But there's something you need to consider. Roads are designed and constructed with slope. I think I remember the numbers (below) but could be wrong.

    A 2 lane road, the crown is in the center, between the 2 lanes ... where the paint stripes are. From the crown it is sloped down 2° on each side. 4° road slope between the 2 lanes.

    A 4 lane road is done the same way.

    A 6 lane road is done the same way, except the outer most lanes (the last one lane each side) gets an additional 2° down slope. Slope is to drain water.

    I'm not sure, but some interstates with a center divider and a means to drain the water out of the median, the 2 most inner lanes (the fast lanes) may be sloped inward by 2° toward the median, with the outer lanes sloped toward the outsides.

    All roads are sloped, not just interstates. In turns however, a 2 lane road has all lanes sloped toward the inside of the curve. This is to help cars make the turn easier. A lot of cars will track through turns, to some degree, towards the inside of the turns, due slope. I can't remember the slope intent of curves on the interstate.

    The point of all this is, that when you feel your car "pulling," you should consider the road slope you're on, to determine if it is pulling due to slope, or pulling against the slope. Cars of course tend to have a slight pull in the direction of the slope.

        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2020 Mirage ES 1.2 manual: 42.4 mpg (US) ... 18.0 km/L ... 5.6 L/100 km ... 50.9 mpg (Imp)


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  11. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by 7milesout View Post
    Your before alignment is not even so bad. It looks like the previous shop purposely set the toe inboard on both sides. Because that looks like mechanical intent, versus something loosening up and going bad. If things loosened up and went bad, I think the tendency would be for toe to go out / negative (not positive). The after alignment looks great. They got the toe even side to side. I don't know, but I doubt anything but toe can be adjusted.

    But there's something you need to consider. Roads are designed and constructed with slope. I think I remember the numbers (below) but could be wrong.

    A 2 lane road, the crown is in the center, between the 2 lanes ... where the paint stripes are. From the crown it is sloped down 2° on each side. 4° road slope between the 2 lanes.

    A 4 lane road is done the same way.

    A 6 lane road is done the same way, except the outer most lanes (the last one lane each side) gets an additional 2° down slope. Slope is to drain water.

    I'm not sure, but some interstates with a center divider and a means to drain the water out of the median, the 2 most inner lanes (the fast lanes) may be sloped inward by 2° toward the median, with the outer lanes sloped toward the outsides.

    All roads are sloped, not just interstates. In turns however, a 2 lane road has all lanes sloped toward the inside of the curve. This is to help cars make the turn easier. A lot of cars will track through turns, to some degree, towards the inside of the turns, due slope. I can't remember the slope intent of curves on the interstate.

    The point of all this is, that when you feel your car "pulling," you should consider the road slope you're on, to determine if it is pulling due to slope, or pulling against the slope. Cars of course tend to have a slight pull in the direction of the slope.
    You are absolutely correct as to the "camber" or slope of the road and I have been told that cars are aligned to compensate for that. I was told that in the days before power steering! And it may have been true at one time but I am guessing it is either less true today or untrue today. Power assisted steering since the 60's have been either nearly total with next to no feedback or partial with feedback to enhance the "feel" of the steering control. Power assisted steering nearly eliminates the need to rig for camber in the highway.

    The desired end result is no tendency to "pull" in either direction, runs straight on a level surface and steering wheel centered when driving straight. Any alignment tech worth his pay should AT LEAST do it as well as the manufacturer. I have bought nine or ten new cars since 1993 and every one whether foreign or domestic has driven as described above right off the dealer lot.

    My intoduction to morons on alignment machines was on a 1982 Dodge Aries K company car that got new struts in '84 at 100000 miles. They even assembled the spring towers in correctly so the steering went to full lock right if you let go of the steering wheel! I have either aligned cars my self or had it done by someone who really knew what they were doing since.
    Karl

  12. #19
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    I brought the car to the dealer again today. They said the alignment was still good even with the steering wheel off center. After calling Mitsubishi they were told to replace the part the steering wheel connects to suspecting the gears could be bad (I guess this is a sealed part so it's hard for them to know if it's bad). They are not totally sure as they haven't seen this problem before either. The part is supposed to take a week to come, but I will update when/if this solves the problem.

    At any rate I can tell the difference between the road being crowned and the steering wheel being off center.

        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2019 Mirage ES 1.2 automatic: 38.8 mpg (US) ... 16.5 km/L ... 6.1 L/100 km ... 46.5 mpg (Imp)


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  14. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mirageman38 View Post
    At any rate I can tell the difference between the road being crowned and the steering wheel being off center.
    The point was is that if your car pulls slightly in the direction of the road crown, that is not abnormal, and may not indicate an alignment issue.


        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2020 Mirage ES 1.2 manual: 42.4 mpg (US) ... 18.0 km/L ... 5.6 L/100 km ... 50.9 mpg (Imp)


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