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Thread: Rev Matching. Am I doing it wrong or is it just the Mirage??

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    Rev Matching. Am I doing it wrong or is it just the Mirage??

    My daily scenario: By going down hill on the highway steadily at 55 mph on 5th gear toward a complete stop.

    I press the brake first to slowly bring down the mph to between 25-35,

    while lowering the mph from 55 to 40, I press the clutch in, down shift from 5th to 3rd (or 2nd if mph is lower than 25) and then slowly release the clutch and let go of the brake... and brake to a complete stop.

    Also, is "rev matching" technique anything different for the G4/HB since it has 3 cylinders and is lightweight?



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    You are doing it wrong. Rev-matching means that before you downshift, you bring the revs UP to the speed necessary for the gears to mesh with no grinding. This was necessary in the days of straight cut gears and no synchromesh for mere driving, and is used with modern transmissions usually just for spirited driving and proper technique.

    To be honest, I wouldn't use the transmission in the Mirage to slow the car unless panic stopping or "racing" as the synchros really don't feel all that robust, and brake pads are cheap...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Basic View Post
    You are doing it wrong. Rev-matching means that before you downshift, you bring the revs UP to the speed necessary for the gears to mesh with no grinding. This was necessary in the days of straight cut gears and no synchromesh for mere driving, and is used with modern transmissions usually just for spirited driving and proper technique.

    To be honest, I wouldn't use the transmission in the Mirage to slow the car unless panic stopping or "racing" as the synchros really don't feel all that robust, and brake pads are cheap...
    DL - I agree that you are not doing it right. But since the advent of synchros, and for 2 wheeled racing, rev matching is not about gear clash. On 2 wheels, rev matching is a technique to lower lap times (via efficient acceleration upon corner exit) without crashing.

    Now with slipper clutches, it is either much easier or maybe not even necessary, I've never used a slipper clutch. Many guys I raced with couldn't rev match, but I found it quite easy on a racebike because it is an action finessed by hand and you don't have handle the throttle like its a prom queen. I'll get back to a car application in a second. Imagine doing ~150 mph in 6th gear at the end of the front straight at Roebling Road, and you need to hammer the brakes and go 3 gears down to 3rd for turn 1. I never touched the rear brake as it would just lock the rear. And I would brake hard enough that the rear tire was barely on the ground. Any skidding and the back end either gets weird or wants to drift out, or the rear tire chatters. Any of those cases, its difficult to be steady and fast in the corner.

    But with max front brake, I would just give a quick yank down on my right arm which would roll my wrist enough to blip the throttle. Simultaneously I would quickly yank/release the clutch and push down on the shifter. This extra engine rpm of the next lower gear would slow the rear tire but certainly not lock it. It would rev the engine so that the engine speed and next gear down's transmission speed would match. And I would enter the next lower gear smoothly. This aids breaking a little but also identifies almost subconsciously the gear the rider is in. In the end you get a little more braking, you get into the appropriate gear for coming out of the turn, and all this happens as smooth as it's going to get during that braking event under racing conditions.

    Back to the street. I rev match almost EVERY time I slow. Just out of habit. I put my right foot on the right edge of the brake pedal and when rev matching I tilt the right edge of my foot over on the gas pedal and push it a quick tidge to get a rev out of it. On the street, in the Mirage, I usually only do this 1 time, 1 rev match. I do it into 3rd mostly because at the point in which 3rd is give out, it's almost at a stop and there's just no need to do it in 2nd. Granted it is not as smooth in the Mirage. Cause I can barely hear what the engine is doing (how much it responds to my foot) and it's just not as smooth doing it with a foot versus a hand. But I manage to do it fairly smoothly most of the time.

    I will rev match into 4th if it looks like I won't have to stop, and if it looks like 4th would be the appropriate gear to be in when the slowing discontinues (like approaching a traffic light that is soon to turn green, or when stopped traffic far ahead are accelerating after a red light has turned green). And will rev match 3rd to 2nd if I'm going to make a turn (not stop) and 2nd will be the appropriate gear to be in coming out of that turn (like turning into a parking lot). Oh and when rev matching early enough and not needing to be covering the brakes yet, it is much easier to rev it to match the next lower gear selected, at which point I move my foot over to the brake.

    I thought it would be a cool video (to me) to put a GoPro on the rear bumper of the Mirage and listen to the revs. I think the 3-tapper sounds nice and it would be cool to hear the rev matching.

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    Senior Member dspace9's Avatar
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    Sometimes I will rev up a bit as I row up gears.

    I find if you just shift, my Mirage actually slows down a little upon each shift, as I get up to speed. If I "rev match" or rev my engine a bit right before I shift up a gear, then I don't slow down that smidgen.

    If I drive purely for fuel economy, I don't bother doing this. But when I'm merging on the freeway etc. and need any extra umph out of my 3 pot, well I will rev it up a bit before going from, say, 3rd to 4th gear.

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        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2014 Mirage ES 1.2 manual: 42.2 mpg (US) ... 17.9 km/L ... 5.6 L/100 km ... 50.7 mpg (Imp)


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    I'm usually in no hurry. And as such, when shifting up, I shift kind of slow and smoothly. And I usually make small inputs to the throttle to hold the rpm in the vicinity of where it will be once engaged in the next gear. This usually aids the gear shifter to glide or "float" right into position.

    Truckers do this with no clutch. It's called floating gears. But their transmissions are made to shift clutchless, ours is not. But it does help to float similary, just using the clutch. However, nothing helps the shifter move into 2nd. It's not terrible, just notchy and has never gotten better.

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        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2020 Mirage ES 1.2 manual: 42.4 mpg (US) ... 18.0 km/L ... 5.5 L/100 km ... 51.0 mpg (Imp)


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    What about powershifting? I'm sure that giant clutch would hold up for at least a couple of those.

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    Senior Member AtomicPunk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Basic View Post

    To be honest, I wouldn't use the transmission in the Mirage to slow the car unless panic stopping or "racing" as the synchros really don't feel all that robust, and brake pads are cheap...
    Exactly. Save your clutch (and money).

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    Quote Originally Posted by defensivetackle88 View Post
    My daily scenario: By going down hill on the highway steadily at 55 mph on 5th gear toward a complete stop.

    I press the brake first to slowly bring down the mph to between 25-35,

    while lowering the mph from 55 to 40, I press the clutch in, down shift from 5th to 3rd (or 2nd if mph is lower than 25) and then slowly release the clutch and let go of the brake... and brake to a complete stop.

    Also, is "rev matching" technique anything different for the G4/HB since it has 3 cylinders and is lightweight?
    Under the above scenario, I would never downshift (like others have already mentioned). Brakes are easier & much cheaper to replace than a clutch. When I am coming to stop, I hardly ever downshift. I see no reason to do so.

    I may downshift to climb my ridge road to get home, but that's not a big deal. My Mirage shifts very smoothly. If I am going down that same hill, I may remain in 3rd or 4th to help control my speed going down. If the road is not good (snow/ice), I may go down in 2nd or 1st. If I need to go down in 1st gear, however, I probably shouldn't be going down. I may not get back up the same road later.

    I trained & tested with a 10 speed manual to get my CDL. Driving a 10-speed manual (double clutching required/floating gears not allowed for training or testing) is nothing like driving a 5-speed manual car. My instructor didn't allow us to even use 1st or 2nd gear (those gears were NEVER used during my 3-week class). We always started in 3rd gear. When you reach 15 mph, you are already in 6th gear. The math goes like this for a 10-speed -

    35mph = 3+5 = 8th gear - you should be in 8th gear.
    25mph = 2+5 = 7th gear - you should be in 7th gear.
    55 mph = 5+5 = 10th gear - if you are driving a company truck & economy means $$$, you better be in 10th gear.

    For someone who has driven a manual since age 8 or 9, double clutching was extremely hard to reprogram into my brain & feet. You never depressed the clutch entirely while shifting.

    Half clutch shift to neutral.
    Hit the accelerator & get RPMs up to 1,300-1,500
    Half clutch shift to lower gear before the RPMs drop too low again!

    That would get you from 10th to 9th gear, and you are not allowed to skip gears going down. I developed a real respect for truck drivers after 10 minutes of road time. You can't drive a semi truck like a Mirage! A semi truck is a totally different beast. I think those who never drove a manual in their life were better off when it comes to driving a truck. I had almost 50 years of reprogramming to do, and it wasn't easy for me.

    When you reach 1,500 RPMs on a 10-speed semi, you're shifting! It's not like a car at all! If you're driving around the lot, you don't even touch the accelerator. You just creep around in 3rd gear. I did use 2nd gear when my instructor wasn't around, & I was practicing by myself after class.

    Just push in the clutch on your Mirage, use the brakes to stop the car, & be thankful about it!

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    Senior Member klroger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark View Post

    Half clutch shift to neutral.
    Hit the accelerator & get RPMs up to 1,300-1,500
    Half clutch shift to lower gear before the RPMs drop too low again!

    Just push in the clutch on your Mirage, use the brakes to stop the car, & be thankful about it!
    You were taught to 1/2 clutch because in HD Trucks, the bottom of the clutch pedal movement actuates a Clutch Brake.. This is to stop the heavy transmission assembly from rotating to engage gears when stopped & fully depressing the clutch when driving accelerates the wear on the clutch brake... You were taught correctly by using only 1/2 clutch when shifting HD transmissions while the truck was moving, but I agree, on the Mirage, just push the clutch & use the brakes.... Rev Match requires double clutching that takes WAY Lots of practice & in MHO, most will never master or need it....
    I didn't know what to do, so I didn't do anything

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        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2018 Mirage GT 1.2 automatic: 37.3 mpg (US) ... 15.9 km/L ... 6.3 L/100 km ... 44.8 mpg (Imp)


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    If Mark or klroger ever needs to borrow my Mirage, I will glue one of these on my shifter just to mess with their head...

    Name:  18_speed.jpg
Views: 546
Size:  49.0 KB


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        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2015 Mirage ES 1.2 manual: 52.2 mpg (US) ... 22.2 km/L ... 4.5 L/100 km ... 62.6 mpg (Imp)


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