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Thread: Is our tire expert still around and active?

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    Senior Member Wallythacker's Avatar
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    Is our tire expert still around and active?

    I have a question.

    If a tire is rated for a finite load at a given air pressure, how does that rating change as the air pressure changes? I assume it's not linear. That would mean my current tires which I think are about 900 lb. rated more or less @35psi would only be rated for 450 lb. @17.5 psi or as much as 1350 lb. @45psi. Or is the weight rating the maximum allowed at the maximum pressure? Not that it's that critical I suppose, how many car/tire combos out there will exceed the max. weight if the max. pressure is not in the tire?

    It would mean I may have been dangerously overloading my tires when they crept down to the 18-19psi range. This obviously applies to my Mirage for safety but I need to know as I'll be pulling a trailer in the spring as much as 50% of the time and I want safety and long tire life together.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Wallythacker View Post
    I have a question.

    If a tire is rated for a finite load at a given air pressure, how does that rating change as the air pressure changes? I assume it's not linear. That would mean my current tires which I think are about 900 lb. rated more or less @35psi would only be rated for 450 lb. @17.5 psi or as much as 1350 lb. @45psi. Or is the weight rating the maximum allowed at the maximum pressure? Not that it's that critical I suppose, how many car/tire combos out there will exceed the max. weight if the max. pressure is not in the tire?

    It would mean I may have been dangerously overloading my tires when they crept down to the 18-19psi range. This obviously applies to my Mirage for safety but I need to know as I'll be pulling a trailer in the spring as much as 50% of the time and I want safety and long tire life together.
    I know that I am not the tire expert you are seeking. It's probably Basic (tire engineer) you want a response from, but your question peaked my curiosity & beliefs on the topic -

    Quoting someone else -

    "Some Standard Load tires are marked with a maximum inflation pressure of 44 psi, but are still rated for their maximum load capacity at 35 psi. The additional inflation pressure may allow the tire to meet special performance requirements, but it does not increase the tire's load carrying capacity."

    taken from -

    https://www.tirereview.com/tire-type...ing%20capacity.

    My concern wouldn't be the tires. I don't feel the Mirage was built for towing. I would keep loads extremely small/light. My concern is not about pulling a load. My biggest concern is stopping with a load. So speed & how you stop is also important. You may know all this, but I write things for all to consider. If I needed a tow vehicle, it wouldn't be my Mirage.

    I like 40 psi for 44 psi rated tires. I am guilty of not following the manufacturer's recommended psi on any vehicle.

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    Dirk Diggler (01-09-2023),mohammad (01-08-2023)

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    Senior Member Wallythacker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark View Post
    The additional inflation pressure may allow the tire to meet special performance requirements, but it does not increase the tire's load carrying capacity."

    taken from -

    https://www.tirereview.com/tire-type...ing%20capacity.
    The article is informative but flawed, they say " Stronger construction allows the use of higher inflation pressures, and, for a given size, increases the load a tire can carry. " Then later they state, "Raising the air pressure does not increase the load capacity."

    Also, what the heck is "special performance requirements ?"
    My concern wouldn't be the tires....but stopping with a load.
    I look at it this way. The Mirage has a well thought out GVWR. Mitsubishi leaves it to the user to determine how the load is distributed expecting some common sense, like not carrying lead ingots in the extreme left front of the car. I take my weight of 150 lb. from the Gross leaving me with 800 lb. for cargo , mixed in any fashion I see fit, within reason (see above, LOL). Curt & Drawtite both make what I consider excellent hitches. I think if Curt/Drawtite really thought they could be sued into bankruptcy for negligently offering a hitch for a vehicle that should never tow anything they would have ignored the Mirage. They are taking, IMO, the same approach Mirage is. We have a vehicle capable of a load of 950 lb. , distributed in a common sense arrangement.

    If the brakes are inadequate to stop my Mirage with me and 800 lb. of trailer and load, then the brakes must be unsafe/inadequate to stop my Mirage with (4) 200 LB. passengers. (950 lb. total gross). I'm guessing that's the legal logic that Curt/Drawtite must rely on to market and sell hitches. If the Mirage can't handle a trailer weighing less than the remaining gross after deducting driver/passengers/luggage the Mirage isn't safe dealing with the same weight exclusively consisting of people.

    I'm going to do all I can to help the Mirage with optimum performance for dealing with a 950 lb. load. Heavier shocks, my sway bar, lowered ride with heavier progressive springs, wider tires/smaller sidewall, less flex and heat buildup, premium ceramic pad and cross drilled rotors to reduce heat, the best shoes for the rear, and perhaps a freer flowing intake for a wee bit more efficiency.

    I'm also setting myself a hard limit of GVWR of 2,920 lb. , a full 100 lb. under the maximum GVWR. This hopefully will account for me being forgetful, like failing to make allowance for my extra 25 lb. toolkit I take when travelling, or if I bring a spare battery for some reason. I'm never going to put myself into a position where I have overloaded my car and some lawyer is haranguing me court about my "dangerously and negligently overloaded compact car."

    I understand your reasons for not towing Mark, it's one of those things that we personally weigh yay or nay. I hope for anyone reading and debating towing, notwithstanding if YOUR car with it's mileage/maintenance/current shape is suitable to tow that my explanation might help you in some way. No matter what you choose, do it as safely as you can.
    Zero, 2014 ES Plus 5MT, written off but not forgotten.
    Zero II, 2014 SE, 5MT, climate She's HOME now!
    Shelby AKA "Cute", 2017 ES 5MT, A/C.

    Mirage owners look at the world differently than everyone else, but in a better way
    We're driving the Beetle of the 21st century, the greatest small car now available!

        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2017 Mirage ES PLus 1.2 manual: 39.0 mpg (US) ... 16.6 km/L ... 6.0 L/100 km ... 46.8 mpg (Imp)


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    Quote Originally Posted by Wallythacker View Post
    I understand your reasons for not towing Mark, it's one of those things that we personally weigh yay or nay. I hope for anyone reading and debating towing, notwithstanding if YOUR car with it's mileage/maintenance/current shape is suitable to tow that my explanation might help you in some way. No matter what you choose, do it as safely as you can.
    I tow all the time! If my Subaru is going somewhere, it usually has a trailer attached to it. I haul gravel, firewood, a tractor, riding lawnmower, push mowers, ATVs, UTVs, dead deer, lumber, wood pellets, patio blocks, furniture, appliances, etc..... I would feel lost without a trailer.

    In my honest opinion, a Mirage is not a vehicle designed for towing.

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    Senior Member Dirk Diggler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark View Post
    I know that I am not the tire expert you are seeking. It's probably Basic (tire engineer) you want a response from, but your question peaked my curiosity & beliefs on the topic -

    Quoting someone else -

    "Some Standard Load tires are marked with a maximum inflation pressure of 44 psi, but are still rated for their maximum load capacity at 35 psi. The additional inflation pressure may allow the tire to meet special performance requirements, but it does not increase the tire's load carrying capacity."

    taken from -

    https://www.tirereview.com/tire-type...ing%20capacity.

    My concern wouldn't be the tires. I don't feel the Mirage was built for towing. I would keep loads extremely small/light. My concern is not about pulling a load. My biggest concern is stopping with a load. So speed & how you stop is also important. You may know all this, but I write things for all to consider. If I needed a tow vehicle, it wouldn't be my Mirage.

    I like 40 psi for 44 psi rated tires. I am guilty of not following the manufacturer's recommended psi on any vehicle.
    You'll always be my tire expert, Mark. You've been a big help in that department as far as I'm concerned amigo.

  7. The Following User Says Thank You to Dirk Diggler For This Useful Post:

    Mark (01-09-2023)

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    I'm adding my $0.02 worth in here Wally, not because I think I'm right, I could be wrong. But just to give another perspective. My background is all automotive engineering, so maybe it's worth about 2.25 cents...

    • Heavier shocks,
      - I agree with this (paired with heavier springs), if such a combo could be sourced. This thing bottoms out way too easy.
    • lowered ride with heavier progressive springs,
      - I can conceive that lowering it will increase stability, but I think it might be better to keep the suspension travel that it has,
      just with more dampening. I tend to think if one is towing sensibly (with a Mirage), the rollover type issues should be as close to non-existent as possible.
    • my sway bar,
      - I guess it couldn't hurt, I've never needed to use one.
    • wider tires/smaller sidewall,
      - Wider tires, sure. Smaller sidewalls, from what I've seen, tend to be more prone to damage.
    • less flex and heat buildup,
      - Less flex would be fine. But with adequate air in the tires, the heat shouldn't be problematic.
    • premium ceramic pad,
      - No opinions here.
    • cross drilled rotors to reduce heat,
      - I would not do this one. More metal = more heat dissipation. I'd go for solid rotors.
    • the best shoes for the rear,
      - Couldn't hurt.
    • and perhaps a freer flowing intake for a wee bit more efficiency.
      - I don't believe anyone has identified an intake that performs more efficiently that the OEM intake. I might be wrong.
    Last edited by 7milesout; 01-09-2023 at 03:02 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 7milesout View Post
    I'm adding my $0.02 worth in here Wally, not because I think I'm right, I could be wrong. But just to give another perspective. My background is all automotive engineering, so maybe it's worth about 2.25 cents...

    • Heavier shocks,
      - I agree with this (paired with heavier springs), if such a combo could be sourced. This thing bottoms out way too easy.
    • lowered ride with heavier progressive springs,
      - I can conceive that lowering it will increase stability, but I think it might be better to keep the suspension travel that it has,
      just with more dampening. I tend to think if one is towing sensibly (with a Mirage), the rollover type issues should be as close to non-existent as possible.
    • my sway bar,
      - I guess it couldn't hurt, I've never needed to use one.
    • wider tires/smaller sidewall,
      - Wider tires, sure. Smaller sidewalls, from what I've seen, tend to be more prone to damage.
    • less flex and heat buildup,
      - Less flex would be fine. But with adequate air in the tires, the heat shouldn't be problematic.
    • premium ceramic pad,
      - No opinions here.
    • cross drilled rotors to reduce heat,
      - I would not do this one. More metal = more heat dissipation. I'd go for solid rotors.
    • the best shoes for the rear,
      - Couldn't hurt.
    • and perhaps a freer flowing intake for a wee bit more efficiency.
      - I don't believe anyone has identified an intake that performs more efficiently that the OEM intake. I might be wrong.
    After reading all that, it might be easier to make a Corvette an economy car!

    If you want to move a couch with a light trailer, a Mirage will be just fine as is. Beyond that, I would consider better options. A small light trailer & Mirage can surely do many things in a pinch. If you want to buy a washing machine at Home Depot & haul it home, it would surely get that done. I would just keep expectations realistic.

    When you become concerned about tire capacity when hauling things, that's a red flag to me. A Mirage shouldn't be towing loads like that. Going a short distance to get a job done may happen at times. I get that. I do things like that all the time, but not with my prized Mirage!

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    Senior Member Wallythacker's Avatar
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    Whoa!!! I must have missed that as it was before my time. That is really a testament to the Mirage. I'm only looking to mve 1/3 of that the majority of my time with a trailer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark View Post
    I tow all the time! If my Subaru is going somewhere, it usually has a trailer attached to it. I haul gravel, firewood, a tractor, riding lawnmower, push mowers, ATVs, UTVs, dead deer, lumber, wood pellets, patio blocks, furniture, appliances, etc..... I would feel lost without a trailer.

    In my honest opinion, a Mirage is not a vehicle designed for towing.
    Sorry Mark, I didn't mean you never tow, I realize your Subaru fits the bill for you. There's so many times, well enough times, that I'm somewhere with my Mirage where I've had the option to take an item I bought/wanted/needed/was free/got paid to take but not the means. I usually carry my drawbar, unless of course I know I'm driving 2 hours to get a great aluminum trailer then I gap it and leave the drawbar/ball/pin in my front hallway. More than once I've been offered the use of a small trailer, obviously I have to return it but that option still beats the alternate choice. (Note: the more I read about my VUE the more I realize I have the top end spec with virtually all the option goodies added. ) My VUE is rated to tow 1500 lbs. , which exceeds my little 4' x 4' Northern Tool trailer and is very close to my axle/spring/tire limit of my 5 x 8 box trailer. I add a picture of it for reference.

    Name:  5x8-AL-trailer.jpg
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    Of course, knowing ahead for towing reasons is the best choice, then I'll use my Saturn. It's interesting that in the case of my Vue, it's only the engine/tranny that is holding the weight limit to 1500 lb. The V6 Vue, mostly identical in body/suspension is rated for 3500 lb. I personally will never test the towing limits of my Vue, 1500 lb. being about right for the physical aspects (hubs/axle/tires) of my trailer.

    Quote Originally Posted by 7milesout View Post
    I'm adding my $0.02 worth in here Wally, not because I think I'm right, I could be wrong. But just to give another perspective. My background is all automotive engineering, so maybe it's worth about 2.25
    bcents...

    • Heavier shocks,
      - I agree with this (paired with heavier springs), if such a combo could be sourced. This thing bottoms out way too easy.
    • lowered ride with heavier progressive springs,
      - I can conceive that lowering it will increase stability, but I think it might be better to keep the suspension travel that it has,
      just with more dampening. I tend to think if one is towing sensibly (with a Mirage), the rollover type issues should be as close to non-existent as possible.
    • my sway bar,
      - I guess it couldn't hurt, I've never needed to use one.
    • wider tires/smaller sidewall,
      - Wider tires, sure. Smaller sidewalls, from what I've seen, tend to be more prone to damage.
    • less flex and heat buildup,
      - Less flex would be fine. But with adequate air in the tires, the heat shouldn't be problematic.
    • premium ceramic pad,
      - No opinions here.
    • cross drilled rotors to reduce heat,
      - I would not do this one. More metal = more heat dissipation. I'd go for solid rotors.
    • the best shoes for the rear,
      - Couldn't hurt.
    • and perhaps a freer flowing intake for a wee bit more efficiency.
      - I don't believe anyone has identified an intake that performs more efficiently that the OEM intake. I might be wrong.
    It's kind of a toss up these days with springs. There were plenty of progs. springs that allowed more weight, great stability and even though they were for lowering the vehicle, the 98-05 Beetle, they raised it some 25 MMs. I may still go that way depending on cost, pairing with shocks, availability. Springs tires and shocks were being replaced this year regardless. there's a thread I started *****ing about my suspension being worn out at 36K kms. As for air intakes I thought the K&N low restriction had a rep for increasing clean airflow?
    Last edited by Wallythacker; 01-10-2023 at 04:59 AM.
    Zero, 2014 ES Plus 5MT, written off but not forgotten.
    Zero II, 2014 SE, 5MT, climate She's HOME now!
    Shelby AKA "Cute", 2017 ES 5MT, A/C.

    Mirage owners look at the world differently than everyone else, but in a better way
    We're driving the Beetle of the 21st century, the greatest small car now available!

        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2017 Mirage ES PLus 1.2 manual: 39.0 mpg (US) ... 16.6 km/L ... 6.0 L/100 km ... 46.8 mpg (Imp)


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    Quote Originally Posted by Wallythacker View Post
    Springs tires and shocks were being replaced this year regardless. there's a thread I started *****ing about my suspension being worn out at 36K kms. As for air intakes I thought the K&N low restriction had a rep for increasing clean airflow?
    If I had 2 complaints about the Mirage, it is the automatic HVAC is pathetic (but most other cars have the same issue with automatic HVAC). And that the rear suspension bottoms out way too easy. I don't mind the softness. But the bottoming is ridiculous. Mine will bottom with 3 people and only 1 in the back. It would be nice to have springs and shocks that ramp up their rates as the displace close to bottoming. But multi-rate shocks and springs must be a cost increase.

    I bottomed one time so hard, that upon rebound I believe the rear tires hopped slightly off the ground. It must have looked a little bit like a bucking bronco. I've never had a car do this before. My passenger (only 1 passenger at that time), didn't enjoy that bounce. It was over railroad tracks that looked smooth, but proved otherwise when I went flying over them.

    As for the K&N intake, I hadn't heard anything good about it in relation to the Mirage. Not saying others haven't reported anything good, I just have read that myself. I have seen oil analysis (unrelated to the Mirage) that report increased silica count (I think that's what it was), which silica just means dirt, getting into the engine oil immediately after installing a K&N air filter. I used a K&N on a racebike, but wasn't expecting to put many miles on that engine. I won't use one on my personal vehicles.


        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2020 Mirage ES 1.2 manual: 42.4 mpg (US) ... 18.0 km/L ... 5.6 L/100 km ... 50.9 mpg (Imp)


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