Other Vehicles You Are (Fo' Real) Contemplating...

[7milesout]

It'd be far more interesting to do errands & run them around in an old Leaf & charge at home.

By interesting do you mean, it would be a challenge in instances whether or not you made it back home?

[7milesout]

it doesn't drive anymore...

I must not be keeping up with your van thread well enough. I thought it was going, but just with some problems to iron out.

[Fummins]

I must not be keeping up with your van thread well enough. I thought it was going, but just with some problems to iron out.

It was going great. Days after I got back from the camping trip I took it on the transmission started taking a poop. Basically undrivable right now, last time I tried it out it got stuck in 3rd gear lol

I don't know if it's an easy/cheap or expensive pita problem so I'm gonna limp it over to a transmission shop and let them take a look. I figure some of the money I just saved by not buying a 40k tesla or 20k clapped out Bolt can go towards getting the damn van going again.

I'm missing out on a lot of perfectly good beer drinking by a fire weather right now!

[Eggman]

Your points are very valid, all I'm addressing is the fact that people completely ignore/forget that with EVs, there are still huge emissions, just of different kind. Mining is very resource intensive, but its usually far from population centres - out of sight, out of mind

I don't deny that emissions are associated with the manufacture of EVs. There is also greenhouse gas pollution associated with charging them.

However:
1. The emissions from power generating plants can be better managed/controlled at a single point of emission as opposed to the millions of points of emissions from vehicle tailpipes. This is especially important given the fact that some percentage of vehicle owner/operators defeat the emissions controls in one way or another. It's simply easier to manage emissions from a smaller number of polluters rather than millions.
2. Again, EVs are roughly 80% efficient with the energy they consume. Meaning, 80% of the energy used by an EV goes to propulsion, the whole reason why we have cars. A car powered by an internal combustion engine will waste 80% of their energy consumed. Much of those losses are in heat & friction.

From Yale:

Modern gasoline-powered vehicles waste a whopping 80% of the energy in their fuel. For each gallon pumped into the tank, only a bit more than three cups go to moving the vehicle forward. In economic terms, for a $5.00 gallon of gasoline, only $1.00 of it gets you closer to your destination.

Most of this waste is an inescapable consequence of thermodynamics. Internal combustion engines ignite liquid fuel to create a pressurized gas that pushes pistons to turn a crankshaft that ultimately spins the car’s wheels. This multistep process bleeds off energy all along the way. Most of the energy in the fuel ends up as heat, and only a small fraction reaches the wheels. The concept of wasted heat becomes intuitive when one thinks about the hot air wafting off a car’s running engine. The engine itself gets hot; a cooling system is needed to manage excess heat; and heat is dispersed through the radiator and blows out the exhaust. All of that heat comes from gasoline, and none of it helps propel the vehicle.

To this point, electric generation facilities use a combined cycle to further improve efficiency.

GE Vernova - Combined cycle power plant: how it works

A combined-cycle power plant uses both a gas and a steam turbine together to produce up to 50% more electricity from the same fuel than a traditional simple-cycle plant. The waste heat from the gas turbine is routed to the nearby steam turbine, which generates extra power.

How a combined cycle power plant produces electricity

This is how a combined-cycle plant works to produce electricity and captures waste heat from the gas turbine to increase efficiency and electrical output.

1) Gas turbine burns fuel:

• The gas turbine compresses air and mixes it with fuel that is heated to a very high temperature. The hot air-fuel mixture moves through the gas turbine blades, making them spin.
• The fast-spinning turbine drives a generator that converts a portion of the spinning energy into electricity.

2) Heat recovery system captures exhaust:

• A heat recovery steam generator (HRSG) captures exhaust heat from the gas turbine that would otherwise escape through the exhaust stack.
• The HRSG creates steam from the gas turbine exhaust heat and delivers it to the steam turbine.

3) Steam turbine delivers additional electricity:

• The steam turbine sends its energy to the generator drive shaft, where it is converted into additional electricity.

I know Mirage forum members like to get into the nuts & bolts of how stuff works. But all this is to point out that while EVs are not the perfect solution, they are a step in the right direction.

[Fummins]

Maybe I'll get a sensible Honda Accord.

As for ev's, I dunno. I looked up the numbers the other day, too lazy to do it now, from what I recall, 60% of electricity in the US is generated using fossil fuels(natural gas, coal etc...). I'm ignorant as far as how exactly gas and natural gas come from the ground and get refined/produced. But I wonder which is more efficient at the end of the day, pumping oil from the ground, refining it, gas station etc...then burning it in a 40mpg car or the process of acquiring natural gas, or other natural resources then burning them to generate power for an electric car. I get that more energy is wasted in a gas car but how much energy is wasted creating that electricity compared to gasoline?

We ran out of power here last summer when everyone ran air conditioners and this past winter when we had a cold snap. We're hooped. Solar doesn't work very efficiently when the days are short in the winter up here, wind doesn't work when it's not windy. Hydro would be handy, they have a few damns around here but the three combined aren't gonna cut it and we have a tiny population compared to other parts of the continent. Nuclear might be great but it's scary.

Edit: I re-read your post eggman, good points.