Lubrication

[Grumpy Bear]

https://sharena21.springcm.com/Publi...5-ac162d889bd1

Found it. Valvoline European XL-III 5W30. A bit over $30 for 5 quarts bought in 3 jug boxes with free shipping.

[Eggman]

That's good info. Thanks!

[Grumpy Bear]

That's good info. Thanks!

Something else you might find useful. These last two oils, Mobil 1 ESP and Valvoline European XL-III while meeting the mid SAPS and minimum HTHS values do NOT contain any polar materials. What does that mean?

It means the 'ring' cleanliness standards required by Porsche/Audi/VW/BMW/MB/DEXOS2/ACEA C3 are obtained in LIMITING deposits, but they have zero natural solvency.

Oils with natural solvency, Red Line Euro, TORCO SR-5, MPT30K, don't limit deposits. The eliminate their formation IF reasonable oil change intervals are observed. Will even remove them over time. Long periods of time.

You can get a very good result with Mobil and Valvoline but on slightly lower oil change intervals. What does the look like? Yea, that would require enough testing, UOA, to establish the crossover point of base/acid balance. And that number will depend on YOU and your machines particulars. I would expect most could go 5K miles/8K Km. Good starting point anyway.

[7milesout]

I just did an oil change on the Blueberry this weekend. I used:

• A Purolator PureONE oil filter,
• Castrol Edge 5W-20 Advanced Full Synthetic Motor Oil (versus Grumpy's suggestion, because I already had this), and
• I had exactly 7,550 miles on that oil.

So I guess with all of the above, MY ENGINE IS SHOT TO HELL!

[Fummins]

I just did an oil change on the Blueberry this weekend. I used:

• A Purolator PureONE oil filter,
• Castrol Edge 5W-20 Advanced Full Synthetic Motor Oil (versus Grumpy's suggestion, because I already had this), and
• I had exactly 7,550 miles on that oil.

So I guess with all of the above, MY ENGINE IS SHOT TO HELL!

You were WARNED about THIS. Please let us knOw when you decide tO part it out. I'm sure others would love to Have memorabilia from a race car.

[Mark]

I just did an oil change on the Blueberry this weekend. I used:

• A Purolator PureONE oil filter,
• Castrol Edge 5W-20 Advanced Full Synthetic Motor Oil (versus Grumpy's suggestion, because I already had this), and
• I had exactly 7,550 miles on that oil.

So I guess with all of the above, MY ENGINE IS SHOT TO HELL!

Clean oil is better than old dirty oil.

5W30 Super Tech Full Synthetic = $3.73/quart Walmart
5W30 Super Tech Advanced Full Synthetic = $4/quart Walmart
0W30 Mobil 1 ESP Full Synthetic = $5.59/quart Walmart *
5w30 Valvoline European Vehicle Full Synthetic XL-III = $7.74/quart Amazon *
5W30 Red Line Euro Series $16.97/quart BimmerWorld *

* Grumpy's seal of approval - I realize his list is a bit longer than this, but these are the ones (*) that interest me.

I tend to compare things to entry level priced oil like Super Tech or Amazon Basics.

When I started using full synthetic a little over 10 years ago, 0W20 Mobil 1 was the easiest oil to find on the shelf. As time went by, more & more 0W20 oils appeared. I made the switch from 0W20 Mobil 1 to 5W30 Super Tech quite some time ago.

Like I said before, I became turned off by the number of Mobil 1 offerings. It got to the point where I just decided to go back to Super Tech products for my vehicles.

For someone living in a colder climate like me, the 0W30 Mobil 1 ESP may be a good option. If I am getting a better product, I don't mind paying $1-2 extra/quart. The difference between ST Advanced Full Synthetic & Mobil ESP is less than $5 per oil change.

I'm never going back to 0W20 oil, but I used up all my 0W20 oil (mixed it in with 5W30 for an oil change or two until it was gone).

It's Grump's thread. He started it. I don't see the need to rip on everything he shares. I'm pointing the finger at me when I say this & not anyone else. His suggestions have give me some oil options to consider. If Mobil 1 ESP is on sale or the Valvoline Euro oil comes down in price, I'm not ruling those out. I'm also not losing sleep over using Super Tech oil in the meantime.

[Eggman]

So if I understand correctly, it is okay to use cheaper engine oils but they usually come at a shorter oil change interval?

[Grumpy Bear]

So if I understand correctly, it is okay to use cheaper engine oils but they usually come at a shorter oil change interval?

You understand correctly. Supertech, Amazon Basic, COSTCO Signature are all CHEAP Warren Oil Dexos/SP oils. They even UOA almost identical. They are Full Synthetic by the definition of the Law but not generally true in the world of science.

There are a lot of things that separate one base oil from the next but one of the more important features is, "how hard they are to oxidize". The harder that is, the longer is last...for a given set of operating conditions. Those oils are one step better than Group I/II mineral oil blends we call "Conventional". How hard an oil is to oxidize is based mainly on its "Oxidation Initiation" temperature. The sensible heat value it takes to START the free radical oxidation reaction. Basic Group II oils, that is 160 F. Some Group V oils are multiples of that.

So, what determining how long to leave an oil in the motor you have three major considerations. How good is the oils heat tolerance and how hot is the bulk oil temperature. And how well is it HINDERED. Speaks to the oxidation chemistry.

How long is determined by what IS not by what is advertised or marketed or even by anecdotal evidence. Chemistry doesn't care what we think or what me make of our personal observations/history/experiences.

Enough for now.

[Grumpy Bear]

It's Grump's thread. He started it. I don't see the need to rip on everything he shares. I'm pointing the finger at me when I say this & not anyone else. His suggestions have give me some oil options to consider. If Mobil 1 ESP is on sale or the Valvoline Euro oil comes down in price, I'm not ruling those out. I'm also not losing sleep over using Super Tech oil in the meantime.

Understand it isn't a brand I lean in on. We can know little for certain. This is a secretive business. What I'm hanging my hat on is what can be assured.

Porsche C30, ACEA C3 and the other certifications I listed have benchmarks that must be met that the SAE J300 standards do not. J300 are fresh oil standards. Some have maximums, some minimums, some are bounded. For instance, J300 says the HTHS viscosity of SAE 30 must be equal to or greater than 2.9 cP. But it hasn't an upper limit and it only has to START in spec.

ACEA C3 says SAE 30 has the same 40 and 100 C viscosity requirements but increases the HTHS to 3.5 cP AND....this is most important....it must STAY IN GRADE for the entire service life the manufacture sets out. Porsche/Audi/VW routinely spec 10K miles/16K Km. Many self oils that call themselves SAE *W30 won't stay in grade for 1K miles, much less 10 times that long.

SAE also does not set standards for many things we rely on, like anti foaming, corrosion, hot stuck rings, ring deposits, sludge and so on. The API does for a specific standard such as SN or SP. ACEA C3 and the others 'raise the bar' on those basic specifications. Porsche's cleanliness standard is quite a bit tougher than the API. However, the API has a tougher standard on LSPI than Porsche or ACEA. So, if you have an oil that will pass BOTH API SP AND ACEA C3 AND Porsche C30. Audi/VW 504/507 and so on and so forth you get some assurance than the oil in question just not says it can but has been certified to do so.

So yes, Amazon basics meet the basic API standards but does not come close to meeting the ACEA standards for the same SAE grade. No where close to the Porsche, VW, Audi, BMW, MB certifications.

Then there are some oils and yes, Red Line is one of several, that go further than even those raised bar certifications by using, not the minimum base oil exchange, but the top of the self, base oils that bring yet MORE to the party. Solvency, Lubricity, Higher thermal and free radical oxidation resistance, even higher film thickness. Often a full grade higher.

Mobil 1 ESP is a mid-pack C30 CERTIFIED oil as is the Valvoline oil I mentioned.

The question the end user has to ask themselves is, what I'm I trying to accomplish? I can't answer that for anyone but me, and I can't help unless the person asking is honest about his goals. You are doing just fine.

[Basic]

I swear I am not being a dick, but thank you for finally making a post that has actual useful information in it and not just anecdotal industry veteran mystery speak...

I probably need to remember this lesson myself when speaking on tire information.

Understand it isn't a brand I lean in on. We can know little for certain. This is a secretive business. What I'm hanging my hat on is what can be assured.

Porsche C30, ACEA C3 and the other certifications I listed have benchmarks that must be met that the SAE J300 standards do not. J300 are fresh oil standards. Some have maximums, some minimums, some are bounded. For instance, J300 says the HTHS viscosity of SAE 30 must be equal to or greater than 2.9 cP. But it hasn't an upper limit and it only has to START in spec.

ACEA C3 says SAE 30 has the same 40 and 100 C viscosity requirements but increases the HTHS to 3.5 cP AND....this is most important....it must STAY IN GRADE for the entire service life the manufacture sets out. Porsche/Audi/VW routinely spec 10K miles/16K Km. Many self oils that call themselves SAE *W30 won't stay in grade for 1K miles, much less 10 times that long.

SAE also does not set standards for many things we rely on, like anti foaming, corrosion, hot stuck rings, ring deposits, sludge and so on. The API does for a specific standard such as SN or SP. ACEA C3 and the others 'raise the bar' on those basic specifications. Porsche's cleanliness standard is quite a bit tougher than the API. However, the API has a tougher standard on LSPI than Porsche or ACEA. So, if you have an oil that will pass BOTH API SP AND ACEA C3 AND Porsche C30. Audi/VW 504/507 and so on and so forth you get some assurance than the oil in question just not says it can but has been certified to do so.

So yes, Amazon basics meet the basic API standards but does not come close to meeting the ACEA standards for the same SAE grade. No where close to the Porsche, VW, Audi, BMW, MB certifications.

Then there are some oils and yes, Red Line is one of several, that go further than even those raised bar certifications by using, not the minimum base oil exchange, but the top of the self, base oils that bring yet MORE to the party. Solvency, Lubricity, Higher thermal and free radical oxidation resistance, even higher film thickness. Often a full grade higher.

Mobil 1 ESP is a mid-pack C30 CERTIFIED oil as is the Valvoline oil I mentioned.

The question the end user has to ask themselves is, what I'm I trying to accomplish? I can't answer that for anyone but me, and I can't help unless the person asking is honest about his goals. You are doing just fine.