Mitsubishi says employees cheated on fuel economy/emissions tests

[MetroMPG]

Agreed about others not getting caught.

I have also driven a Ford Edge that I am certain was rated optimistically. In gentle sub/urban driving, I could NOT beat its city rating on a route I have used to teach eco-driving techniques. But in a dozen other vehicles on the same route (from Toyotas to BMW's to Hondas to GM's to Audis), I could easily beat those cars' ratings by 15-20%.

[MetroMPG]

Friendly reminder: no political discussion in the forum. Thanks.

[deleted user]

His post stays and mine goes just take my name off this forum membership immediately

[MetroMPG]

The U.S. National Highway Traffic Safety Administration [has] asked Mitsubishi Motors Corp for information on its vehicles sold in the United States

[...]

[A NHTSA spokesman] declined to comment on which models it had requested information on, or whether it had requested data from other automakers.

http://www.firstpost.com/fwire/u-s-a...s-2742798.html

[chris_top_her]

The problem is that manufacturers have begun to reach the limits of what an internal combustion engine can do in terms of emissions and fuel efficiency, but government demands cleaner and ever more efficient vehicles each and every year. Just because the government demands that every car get 50 mpg by 2025 (or whatever the latest fantasy number is) doesn't mean it is going to happen...or that it is even POSSIBLE.

It's no surprise that manufacturers are being forced to fudge numbers and find work-arounds. And they should be held accountable. What pisses me off is the piousness coming from the government about it...fudging numbers is standard operating procedure for the government!

I knew VW wasn't going to be alone. And when the dust settles, I think every manufacturer in the industry with be at least a little guilty of doing the same thing.

Limits not reached at all.. mirage is getting 55mpg on a small displacement 10:1 port injection motor with a curb weight of <2000 lb. People are getting over 40mpg with a 2l 13:1/14:1 DI motor with a 3000lb car. Mazda is already pushgin 14:1 engines which is the highest of any gas production engine (also they make the lowest compression diesel motor at 14:1 twin turbo). Next inline is compression has engines with no spark plug, like a diesel. The limits aren't being reached it's about going away from the norm.

[Cobrajet]

Limits not reached at all.. mirage is getting 55mpg on a small displacement 10:1 port injection motor with a curb weight of <2000 lb. People are getting over 40mpg with a 2l 13:1/14:1 DI motor with a 3000lb car. Mazda is already pushgin 14:1 engines which is the highest of any gas production engine (also they make the lowest compression diesel motor at 14:1 twin turbo). Next inline is compression has engines with no spark plug, like a diesel. The limits aren't being reached it's about going away from the norm.

All of this stuff has to be done at a particular cost. If this wiz-bang technology is possible but too expensive for the average consumer, then it is not viable.

Nobody is going to pay $60,000 for a base model Camry just because it gets 41 mpg instead of the previous model's 38 mpg or because it emits 1ppm less CO2 per mile than it's predecessor. These things may make the government happy, but what about the people who are expected to come into the showroom and plunk down their hard-earned?

The car business is normally a cost-benefit model which is based on what consumers want. But government mandates can skew that very important math. That is why we see the cheating. The government doesn't care if a particular model with new technology is viable from a SALES perspective or not. All they care about is their mandate being followed.

Don't get me wrong...I am for cleaner cars. But the engineering behind them has to be saleable in order to be useful.

[cyclopathic]

^^^
Funny you mention HyCam. My co-worker traded one for Mazda3 Cheaper, same MPG. Mazda6 is getting ~35.

Accord and Malibu are rated at 47 and 46 MPG respectively, and priced competitively against Camry.

[MetroMPG]

The Sankei newspaper also said the carmaker is also suspected of using non-Japanese test methodology on its RVR [called Outlander Sport in the U.S.], Outlander, Pajero and Minicab MiEV models.

Mitsubishi had said there may be more models that violate Japanese regulations. A spokesman said the company was still looking into those models.

http://www.rte.ie/news/business/2016...shi-emissions/

The company's stock has now fallen by ~40% or around -$3 billion. This is bad, bad bad. If Mitsu's carmaking business wasn't just a relatively small arm in a much bigger conglomerate, I'd say this is becoming a life or death matter.

[Cobrajet]

It still seems limited to some Japan-only Kei cars. We are talking some sketchy testing methods here...not software cheats designed into the cars and meant to fool emissions testing equipment. I don't think this has come even close to reaching VW-esque levels yet.

Stock prices always tank on bad news. And when offices are being raided, it's BAD news. Then, when the smoke clears, they go back up again. Again, look at VW stock.

Speculative stock buyers will snap up the heavily-discounted, panic-sold stock over the next few days or weeks, thus easing the 'crisis'. Happened a million times before.

Mitsubishi, as a company, is actually in pretty damned good financial shape..even with this sell-off of their stock. Were they smart, they'd buy all this deflated stock back! Read here:

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/if-...shi-2016-04-22

[MetroMPG]

Agreed: everyone's in panic mode now, and it's a buying opportunity.

But it's still going to hurt the bottom line, just like VW. The question is for how long.

limited to some Japan-only Kei cars.

The article I linked says the RVR is implicated too. That's the Outlander Sport.