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Thread: Autocrossing a Mirage

  1. #31
    Still Plays With Cars Loren's Avatar
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    Handbrake turns have their place... but, their place isn't autocross. (it's more an off-road rally thing)

    If I really wanted to swing the back end around, I'd set the suspension up to be "looser" such that when I enter a turn, I'd just lift off the gas to transfer weight off of the rear of the car... then the rear would slide, and when I plant my right foot on the gas, weight shifts back to the rear and stops the slide. That's the proper way to do it in the autocross environment.

    But, just like handbraking a turn, it IS an advanced technique. Personally, I think you're a lot better off learning to drive the car IN control before exploring how to drive it at the edge of control and beyond. You have to learn where the limits are and how to reach them without going past them first.

    Have fun with your first autocross! Remember, 3-wheeling a FWD car is fine. It's going to do that all the time. But, if people start telling you that they see air under your FRONT tire... you're going to want to dial it back a little bit!

    Top heavy cars like the Mirage and the Fiat 500 are going to want to roll over when you get over-aggressive with your steering inputs. The "one-two" punch will get you into trouble. Not trying to scare you, you can have a lot of fun and be faster than anyone expects you to be in a Mirage, but you just need to be smooth with your inputs.

    Here's a good example of what can happen:



    And this one is an Abarth 500 with lowered suspension actually going over without even that much of an input. Overcorrection will bite you hard in cars like this.



    So, the problem with handbraking a turn is that now you're sliding... and when the slide suddenly STOPS (due to a change in pavement, or just naturally grabbing at some point) you've already got the suspension fully loaded on a top-heavy car... if you suddenly spike the cornering load like that, all bets are off!

    Even if I was inclined to do handbrake turns (I'm not), I wouldn't dream of doing it in the Mirage. It's too tippy.

    Autocross may be different in your part of the world. Here, we rarely have a turn that's less than 28-30 mph, that means you can take it in 2nd gear. All the handbrake would do is scrub off speed and upset the car. Stick with classic racing techniques. "Slow in, fast out", "Brake, turn-in, apex, track-out" just like you would on a race track.


    Simplify and add lightness.

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    Fummins (02-15-2019)

  3. #32
    We rolled a firefly(metro) at the junkyard once. Buddy pulled the e-brake to try to do a u-turn on dirt/gravel in the back 40. It ended up on it's roof. I was ridding shotgun belted in, ended up hanging upside down, buddy wasn't buckled up. He ended up sitting on the steering wheel facing the back seat and all the jacks and tire irons that were in the back flew out the 1/4 glass and landed in a pile.
    I miss the junkyard

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        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2014 Mirage SE wussie cvt edition. 1.2 automatic: 37.7 mpg (US) ... 16.0 km/L ... 6.2 L/100 km ... 45.3 mpg (Imp)


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    MetroMPG (03-06-2019)

  5. #33
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    Hey Loren-

    Have you had any issues with tire contact on the fenders after the extra drop?

    I have the BC racing coilover set, and even my 185 sections get close in the rear to rubbing. I think I was initially lower then your car, but you may be lower then me now.

    Do you have any clearance issues in the front with 205s? And if you are doing a staggered setup, would a 14x5.5 195/60/14 tire in the back, and then a 15x6 with a 205/55/15 in the front work you think? Smaller wheels in the back mean less unsprung weight, and given the weight distribution, the extra sidewall height probably wouldn't matter. And looks don't matter if you are faster, imo!

  6. #34
    Still Plays With Cars Loren's Avatar
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    The rear fenders had to be rolled and pulled to fit 195's with the offset that I have. More offset might bring them in far enough to clear the fenders with 195's. 205's... probably not.

    No problems with fender clearance in the front with 195's. 205's made a little contact that required some adjustment to a metal tab where the fender and bumper come together.

    The only other problem I have is that now that I've lowered the car further, the top of the front tire hits the inner fender. There's no fender liner up there, it's actually hitting flat metal. I think if I raised the car back up by just a half inch, it would stop most of it.

    Not a problem, but does occur: at full lock, sometimes the corner of the tire hits the back of the fenderwell at the firewall.

    You're talking about wheel and tire size without mentioning offset. That's going to get you into trouble.

    Really, wheel size doesn't matter. Tire size AS MOUNTED on the wheel, specifically overall diameter and overall width. That plus wheel offset will determine your clearance. You can look at what you have on the car now, if you know your offset and take a few measurements, and use that info to figure out within a few millimeters whether or not another combination will fit.

    205/55-15 tires are going to be tall. They would fit under the front fenders, but you'd have to raise the car to have enough clearance to avoid that "top of the inner fender" clearance problem that I mentioned. I'm running 205/50-15.
    Simplify and add lightness.

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    hmm...

    Bummer... so my 185/60/14s are pretty much the biggest I could go before tweaking stuff... hmm. Maybe I should go down to a 13in wheel, and switch to those Toyo r888, and just swap wheels at the event. It would reduce the gear ratio too... I know that some 13in wheels have clearance issues, but I think the caliper clearance on a Panasport 13in wheel would be better then an OEM Honda wheel. The extra reduction in ride height would be nice too. But the rollover risk would be more with the r888...

    I live in Minnesota, so I am pretty hesitant to modify the fenders, given the salt on road issues.

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    Have you looked at doing downsized wheel and tires, to increase clearance? I figure since that would compromise the "showup and drive" aspect that it wouldn't really appeal.

  9. #37
    Still Plays With Cars Loren's Avatar
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    Due to the modified lower control arms on my car, I can't fit smaller wheels in the front. There are even some 15" wheels that won't fit!

    Smaller wheels with stock control arms and stock brakes would certainly allow the car to be lower. Tire options become a problem as you get smaller than 15" diameter, though.
    Simplify and add lightness.

  10. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wallawallaman View Post
    I have the BC racing coilover set
    Sidenote, but how do you like the BC set? I've had them on my wishlist for a while but haven't made the jump. I know their great quality parts on the more common car models so I'm just curious.

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        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2017 Mirage GT 1.2 automatic: 37.5 mpg (US) ... 15.9 km/L ... 6.3 L/100 km ... 45.0 mpg (Imp)


  11. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wallawallaman View Post
    hmm...

    Bummer... so my 185/60/14s are pretty much the biggest I could go before tweaking stuff... hmm. Maybe I should go down to a 13in wheel, and switch to those Toyo r888, and just swap wheels at the event. It would reduce the gear ratio too... I know that some 13in wheels have clearance issues, but I think the caliper clearance on a Panasport 13in wheel would be better then an OEM Honda wheel. The extra reduction in ride height would be nice too. But the rollover risk would be more with the r888...

    I live in Minnesota, so I am pretty hesitant to modify the fenders, given the salt on road issues.
    185/60/14 are only 22.7" outside diameter tires. That's not big at all for a Mirage?

  12. #40
    Still Plays With Cars Loren's Avatar
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    Today, I started the transformation from autocross machine to daily driver. The 15x7 wheels with 205/50 front and 195/50 rear Dunlop Direzza ZIII's have been replaced with 15x6.5 wheels with 185/55 Toyo T1-R's.

    The difference in ride quality was amazing! Very smooth and quiet in comparison.

    The difference in steering response was COMICAL! The grip is there, but, WOW... "did I just turn the wheel? I thought I just turned the wheel." That will take some getting used to. And I'll probably raise the tire pressures a bunch to try to compensate. (good for FE, anyway)

    I'm going to experiment with some softer shock settings and probably raise the car about a half inch or so. I may also put the softer springs back up front (the springs that came with the coilover kit), and may fit a softer rear bar (the one I have REALLY lifts the inside tire a lot and makes it ride roughly over the dip at the end of my street). Need to tweak the front alignment to be more tire-friendly, as well.

    But, the good news is that I've decided to keep the car. Even though I'm not autocrossing it, it's a good "economy utility vehicle". With the back seats out, it's got plenty of space to haul stuff when needed. Gets me and my wife around town. And it's still fun to drive.


    Simplify and add lightness.

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    Fummins (08-06-2019)

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