Mitsubishi salesman says 2020 Mirage will look very different.

[itschad]

The issue is though is the Renault-Nissan-Mitsubishi alliance. They joined together to possibly share platforms and parts to keep costs down. I trust Mitsubishi engineering, Im not sure about Nisssan and have no idea about Rensult. Your the respected opinion on here in regards to European car manufacturers considering you've dealt with them for what? 50 years? Opel, Renault, etc. are on a certain level unknown in North America. So if you say Renault is crap, I believe you.

I cannot say with conviction that Renault or Nissan are crap. The Renault/Nissan alliance is a few years old now, as for Mitsubishi being involved with that alliance I have no idea. Personally I would not choose a Renault as a chariot of mine, neither a Nissan simply because of Renault's involvement. However, Renault do have a formidable reputation in Formula 1.

[Dirk Diggler]

I cannot say with conviction that Renault or Nissan are crap. The Renault/Nissan alliance is a few years old now, as for Mitsubishi being involved with that alliance I have no idea. Personally I would not choose a Renault as a chariot of mine, neither a Nissan simply because of Renault's involvement. However, Renault do have a formidable reputation in Formula 1.

And that could mean more spirited, fun engines for the little Mirage for sure. I just question reliability. I know very little about Renault, I know they sell well overseas so there's that.

[itschad]

And that could mean more spirited, fun engines for the little Mirage for sure. I just question reliability. I know very little about Renault, I know they sell well overseas so there's that.

Renault do have "spirited" engines but the reliability built into a Mitsubishi engine would be my favour.
Here is the latest Renault Clio. A good looking car but not as favourable as previous models.



Current price for a mid spec 5 door Clio 900 cc turbo 3 cylinder engine with 100 bhp is around £15000.

[Wallythacker]

And that could mean more spirited, fun engines for the little Mirage for sure. I just question reliability. I know very little about Renault, I know they sell well overseas so there's that.

Renault took at stab at the Canadian market in the 80's with the "le car"> I dated a girl who had one. For the time I thought it was better engineered than most Jap cars. Mind, I was driving a 935 twin turbo at the time so everything else was a POS IMO.

[inuvik]

Renault do have "spirited" engines but the reliability built into a Mitsubishi engine would be my favour.
Here is the latest Renault Clio. A good looking car but not as favourable as previous models.



Current price for a mid spec 5 door Clio 900 cc turbo 3 cylinder engine is around £15000.

One of the biggest drawbacks I see is the Renault’s usage of timing belts. Renault’s replacement schedule is every 60,000 miles. Renault’s engine are a interference design (which is common in almost every engine in production today). You can’t let the timing belts break on these engines because the valves will smash against the pistons basically destroying the engine. The additional problems with timing belts are they also drive the water pump. If your water pump leaks it will destroy the belt and ruin your engine. So it’s just not the timing belt that should be replaced, you should also replace the tensioners because if they fail, the timing belt will fail and destroy your engine. So a owner should really replace the timing belt, water pump, and tensioners every belt change. It’s not a $75.00 job to say the least, It’s more like a $500-$1000 cost at the dealer depending on the engine and parts costs. That is a substantial hidden cost of ownership that owners don’t budget for therefore most don’t get replaced or do get replaced on the cheap only replacing the belt.

Mitsubishi’s use of a timing chain is one of the reasons I bought a Mirage. You’ll most likely never have to do anything with it for the entire life of the vehicle. A good example of this is Stevedmc’s Mirage which is approaching 300k if not over by now and has never had to do any adjustments or replacements.

Timing Chain=Good
Timing Belt= Bad

[Wallythacker]

My crappy Saturn 2.4 is also a chain, I think. Chains can stretch, it was common when all v8's were chains. But so many of those engines had 400+ hp and 500+ ft. lb. torque. Stretch is unlikely with our low hp ecoboxes.

Around the corner from me is a yard full of Saturn Vues with the 3.5l interference Honda mill. All 25+ of these Vues had the belt fail, trashing the engines.

[Carfreak09]

One of the biggest drawbacks I see is the Renault’s usage of timing belts. Renault’s replacement schedule is every 60,000 miles. Renault’s engine are a interference design (which is common in almost every engine in production today). You can’t let the timing belts break on these engines because the valves will smash against the pistons basically destroying the engine. The additional problems with timing belts are they also drive the water pump. If your water pump leaks it will destroy the belt and ruin your engine. So it’s just not the timing belt that should be replaced, you should also replace the tensioners because if they fail, the timing belt will fail and destroy your engine. So a owner should really replace the timing belt, water pump, and tensioners every belt change. It’s not a $75.00 job to say the least, It’s more like a $500-$1000 cost at the dealer depending on the engine and parts costs. That is a substantial hidden cost of ownership that owners don’t budget for therefore most don’t get replaced or do get replaced on the cheap only replacing the belt.

Mitsubishi’s use of a timing chain is one of the reasons I bought a Mirage. You’ll most likely never have to do anything with it for the entire life of the vehicle. A good example of this is Stevedmc’s Mirage which is approaching 300k if not over by now and has never had to do any adjustments or replacements.

Timing Chain=Good
Timing Belt= Bad

While chains are overall more durable then belts, they do stretch with age and the most common failure point is the tensioner, which are often hydraulically operated in today's cars. This false sense of "oh, it's a chain, no need to mess with it" is exactly why chains are not routinely checked and thus typically fail with no warning. Everyone knows a belt has to be checked and changed periodically so rarely is it a case of, "that belt broke out of nowhere!". What I'm saying is, don't think that because it has a chain that its maintenance free. I had a 91 Nissan Stanza whose chain tensioner failed and trashed the engine around 140k. My dad's 66 Fairlane has a chain and he never fooled with it. When he had some engine work done a few years ago, he found out that the chain was riding on plastic gears and the gears were almost completely worn out. The chain itself was also stretched. His engine was very close to jumping a tooth and throwing the timing all out of wack. Whether damage would have been done, I don't know. But he never inspected or thought about it because it was a chain and by golly those things last forever, or so he assumed.....The old 60k belt changes were an expensive annoyance but nowadays, belts range between 100-150k change intervals which is about all I'd trust a chain tensioner to last so maintenance requirements are pretty much equal between them.

[inuvik]

While chains are overall more durable then belts, they do stretch with age and the most common failure point is the tensioner, which are often hydraulically operated in today's cars. This false sense of "oh, it's a chain, no need to mess with it" is exactly why chains are not routinely checked and thus typically fail with no warning. Everyone knows a belt has to be checked and changed periodically so rarely is it a case of, "that belt broke out of nowhere!". What I'm saying is, don't think that because it has a chain that its maintenance free. I had a 91 Nissan Stanza whose chain tensioner failed and trashed the engine around 140k. My dad's 66 Fairlane has a chain and he never fooled with it. When he had some engine work done a few years ago, he found out that the chain was riding on plastic gears and the gears were almost completely worn out. The chain itself was also stretched. His engine was very close to jumping a tooth and throwing the timing all out of wack. Whether damage would have been done, I don't know. But he never inspected or thought about it because it was a chain and by golly those things last forever, or so he assumed.....The old 60k belt changes were an expensive annoyance but nowadays, belts range between 100-150k change intervals which is about all I'd trust a chain tensioner to last so maintenance requirements are pretty much equal between them.

Well, I’ll risk running 200k+ without looking at my timing chain in my Mirage any day and so far we’ve had absolutely zero issues from owners about timing chain failures. If you would like to try the same endeavor with a timing belt engine then I’ll pop some popcorn and await your results.

[Wallythacker]

I've never had a chain fail and trash a motor, even when I was pushing 600+ hp on a 429 Ford Super Cobra Jet engine. It stretched of course, but the tensioner did the job and that car was launched hard when I did the 1/4 mile with it.

Matter of fact, my buddy put gears in his 454 LS6 chev and they got trashed from the insane 1/4 mile runs he did.

I have no fear of putting 500,000 miles on a Mirage without looking at the chain.

[bzacon]

My understanding has been that the Versa (note) is in some ways more stripped down than the Mirage. Is that still true for the newer models? Crank windows and such?