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Thread: Electric Car Rant

  1. #81
    Senior Member dspace9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark View Post
    Toyota sort of did in their Prius c themselves. For a little more money (MSRP), you can get Corolla Hybrid that's larger & much more fuel efficient.

    Prius c (99 hp) = 48 city/ 43 highway mpg

    Corolla Hybrid (121 hp) = 53 city/52 highway mpg
    If you're gonna spend the money on a hybrid, the one to buy by Toyota is a Prius hatchback that is super expensive, or you buy the Corolla Hybrid sedan. As long as they have 60/40 rear seats. The Corolla hatchback is more expensive in Canada.

    At least the Prius is generally a hatchback, or at least it used to be. Not anymore come to think of it.


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        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 214 Mirage ES 1.2 manual: 41.8 mpg (US) ... 17.8 km/L ... 5.6 L/100 km ... 50.2 mpg (Imp)


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  3. #82
    Nickname: "Rally" MirageRally's Avatar
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    The Prius V will be my next car bc of the great mileage, and it is similar to a wagon...so more cargo room over the standard Prius....plus the Prius V looks more appealing to me over the new Prius IMO, but looks are subjective. When electric cars can go 500-600 miles on a single charge l'll buy one...but until then l'll take my Mirage or a Hybrid Prius over full electric.
    Interests: Rallying/Drifting/Cars/Motorcycles

  4. #83
    Senior Member Cobrajet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MetroMPG View Post
    The priciest component in an EV is the battery. Ongoing R&D and economies of scale are still driving down the price per kWh:

    Attachment 20991

    (From article: The story of cheaper batteries, from smartphones to Teslas)

    The other thing that affects battery pricing is pack size. Small car, small pack, small range = small price.

    The world's best-selling EV starts at $4,162 USD and has a ~170 km = 110 mile range and ~100 km/h = 62 MPH top speed:

    Attachment 20992

    It's the "Chinese Mirage of EV's!" And it comes with AC, power windows, ABS, TPS, parking sensors, etc.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wuling_Hongguang_Mini_EV

    No doubt a "cheap", small EV can be built that meets US safety regs with similar range and a higher top speed.

    The big question is how much profit margin is there in a cheap, penalty box EV for the poors? And would people buy a 100 mile car just to get that new car warranty?
    It doesn't matter how cheap an EV is if the owner doesn't have a place to plug it in at night. Charging stations here and charging stations there are great, but this is a real problem that an 'infrastructure bill' won't fix. You might be thinking, "Do you have a gas pump at your house to refuel your Mirage, Mr. Cobrajet?"

    No, but my Mirage does not take five hours to refuel, either. Super cheap EVs may finally be affordable to people at the bottom end of the auto market, but they may also end up being very impractical for those same consumers.

    Imagine the mayhem that will ensue if some 'Karen' who can't charge her EV at home decides to leave it plugged in at the nearby public charging station all day while she is at work!

  5. #84
    True.

    That said, supercheap EV's with small packs can fill their batteries much faster than cars with big packs. And 110v charging is practical with a smaller pack. No special chargers / charging stations required.

    It still doesn't strictly solve the problem for apartment dwellers though. (Although it used to be the case that apartments & workplaces provided outdoor 110v outlets for block heaters.)

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        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2014 Mirage SE 1.2 manual: 61.9 mpg (US) ... 26.3 km/L ... 3.8 L/100 km ... 74.3 mpg (Imp)


  6. #85
    Moderator Eggman's Avatar
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    Interesting to read various takes on this showing support and resistance. Looking forward to seeing how this technology is adapted. Internal combustion engines have taken 150 years to get to this point? And they beat out early electric propulsion. See Baker Electric of Cleveland - one of their buildings still stands near downtown. History is fun.

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        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2015 Mirage ES 1.2 manual: 49.5 mpg (US) ... 21.0 km/L ... 4.8 L/100 km ... 59.4 mpg (Imp)


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    Quote Originally Posted by MetroMPG View Post
    True.

    That said, supercheap EV's with small packs can fill their batteries much faster than cars with big packs. And 110v charging is practical with a smaller pack. No special chargers / charging stations required.

    It still doesn't strictly solve the problem for apartment dwellers though. (Although it used to be the case that apartments & workplaces provided outdoor 110v outlets for block heaters.)
    My son-in-law & daughter live in a small apartment in Helsinki, Finland. They have no reserved parking for a vehicle. Their Fiat Punto is parked on the streets around their neighborhood. Even if electric outlets existed, it wouldn't be very convenient to use/share them with the general public. Once more cars become electric, fees for charging will most likely go up.

    It's not that I am opposed to electric cars. In some situations, it would be extremely inconvenient. In other situations, it would be great! Buying 10 gallons of gas @ the pump & then leaving is much easier for some.

    Parking is so inconvenient there, my daughter's in-laws & sister-in-law also share the one car with them. Most of their in city transportation is the metro bus. They also have tour buses that are used as public transportation at the same time. Tourists buy a daily pass, & locals have a long term pass to use. You can get on the bus @ one of the several stops throughout the city at any time or any place. Tourists are given ear buds to tap into the sound system of the tour guide recording. You have 10 language choices to tap into. Very different than rural Wisconsin where I live.

    If you only do short trips, have a garage or easy outlet access, & maybe have a 2nd vehicle for longer trips, an electric car may be a great investment. Especially, if you are already a multiple vehicle family (where 2 or 3 family members drive to work or school). If you are single, you have to decide if one electric vehicle will do everything you need it to do.

    I'm single & put 90% of my mileage on my Mirage. If I had to cut back to one vehicle, the Mirage would have to go. The Forester can do it all for me. My Forester & small trailer are my pickup truck, & I haul stuff at times. The Subaru is just not as efficient (money or economy- wise) when doing everything. Owning two or more vehicles adds insurance, license fees, & other costs, too.

    I have no doubt electric vehicles will become more popular, but I don't think the combustion engine is going to disappear any time soon. Sadly, hybrids, electric vehicles, & things like adaptive cruise, emergency braking, auto/stop start, etc... are putting the "nail in the coffin" for manual transmissions. All those things make driving sound boring to me!

  9. #87
    Senior Member AtomicPunk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark View Post

    I have no doubt electric vehicles will become more popular, but I don't think the combustion engine is going to disappear any time soon. Sadly, hybrids, electric vehicles, & things like adaptive cruise, emergency braking, auto/stop start, etc... are putting the "nail in the coffin" for manual transmissions. All those things make driving sound boring to me!

    Here's an interesting video about the dying manual transmission and why.

    https://youtu.be/VQELOXxi95Y

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    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicPunk View Post
    Here's an interesting video about the dying manual transmission and why.

    https://youtu.be/VQELOXxi95Y
    I've watched that SG clip in the past. Manuals are surely going by the wayside.

    If I were inclined to buy a new vehicle, I would probably give Mazda the most consideration these days. That statement is driven by transmissions. Whereas, I wouldn't even bother to look at a Nissan (because of their transmission reputation). ​

    I need to drive a Mazda Miata manual some day!

  12. #89
    Yes you do! My crappy Miata was made 31 years ago, and it's the most fun & satisfying shifter I've ever driven.

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        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2014 Mirage SE 1.2 manual: 61.9 mpg (US) ... 26.3 km/L ... 3.8 L/100 km ... 74.3 mpg (Imp)


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  14. #90
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    To me, in the Mirage, it's not about manual vs automatic. It about reliability vs transmission anxiety. I actually do enjoy rowing gears and keeping the engine in it's happy zone. Getting the performance I seek from the engine by connecting my brain to the transmission it is enjoyable. See the last paragraph in relation to this.

    Yet, when I get in my ole crusty automatic 2003 Camry, there is little to no transmission anxiety. And there is no (sub-conscious) wincing when the transmission shifts too soon to the next gear every time, or when it doesn't shift down in anticipation to what I see coming. The old school Toyota 4 speed automatic overdrive transmission is the best automatic transmission I have driven. I think that car too would be better with a manual transmission, but I find myself satisfied while driving it. This must have been the last transmission developed prior to the current race to the 100 speed automatic that get's fully into 100th gear by 9 mph, that is currently underway. Even my Lexus is completely annoying. It is an 8 speed, that I manually lock out to 6th gear for around town driving.

    I hooked up my BT connector to the Mirage and looked at various data while driving. This car is doing a couple things I didn't expect. My understanding was that in a manual transmission, when in gear and coasting speed down, the computer is injecting 0 fuel when above idle speed (no accelerator). But according to the data I saw, this doesn't seem to be true. I believe this to be true to with a diesel (with no throttle valve), but with the Mirage, maybe it is not true. The point being that coasting down the speed in 5th gear is actually more fuel efficient than down shifting and coasting down. However the difference is going to be VERY small. And I noticed that this engine seems to be tuned to run just a hair rich under most conditions. Which is the safer / more powerful side to tune to. Gonna need a bit more time staring at my smartphone while driving the Mirage to know for sure. Getting off topic here, sorry.


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        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2020 Mirage ES 1.2 manual: 42.4 mpg (US) ... 18.0 km/L ... 5.6 L/100 km ... 50.9 mpg (Imp)


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