Real skinny tires...

[Top_Fuel]

I have always like those wheels. Like everything else these days, trying to score a deal on them is going to require some patience. A quick search on Craigslist turned up this overpriced example.

...Would a 145/65 R15 tire...work adequately on a 5.5" wheel?

I think it will work. It might be slightly stretched on a 5.5" wide wheel...depending on how Vredestein sizing is (some manufacturers tires tend to run bigger/smaller than the stated size of the tire). Here's the visual representation of a 145 tire on a 5.5" wheel (from willtheyfit.com)...



One concern I might have is a lack of curb protection with that tire. But if you aren't worried about that, go for it.

[7milesout]

Curb protection as in smashing the wheels into curbs? Yeah, I'm very careful about that. But I let my sons drive the Mirage every now and then. They tend not to do that either. But thanks for the will they fit sketch. That's something I hadn't considered ... curb damage.

[Wallythacker]

I dunno, do you think running a snow tire(more sipes, chunkier lugs, likely softer compound) counteract any benefit of running a skinnier tire? What about this tire that's apparently designed for the smartcar: https://www.quattrotires.com/tires/C...TACT%20EP/7457 $120cad/89usd??? It has eco in the name so it's gotta be good

Those Continentals look good. As for load limit, the Mirage GVWR is 3090 lb. or pretty close and the Continental is good for a GVWR of 3150 lb. or so. Time for Basic to chime in. Are tires rated for their maximum load at their maximum pressure or another value? Maybe I asked this already. How do you downrate your tire if they are rated at maximum inflation but you run them at 75% of that? Is it a linear calculation?

[Mark]

I have always like those wheels. Like everything else these days, trying to score a deal on them is going to require some patience. A quick search on Craigslist turned up this overpriced example.


I think it will work. It might be slightly stretched on a 5.5" wide wheel...depending on how Vredestein sizing is (some manufacturers tires tend to run bigger/smaller than the stated size of the tire). Here's the visual representation of a 145 tire on a 5.5" wheel (from willtheyfit.com)...



One concern I might have is a lack of curb protection with that tire. But if you aren't worried about that, go for it.

If you show that pic alongside a 165/65r14 tire mounted on 14" x 4.5" rims or a 175/55r15 tire mounted on 15" x 5" rims, you will see the difference in mounting. You have sidewalls pointing out instead of in (like a normal tire mount). A narrow tire mounted in an extra wide rim is not how they are designed to be used. I would be less concerned in a tube situation like a bike tire, but I would be more concerned in a tubeless tire situation.

[Mark]

Ok, you do make me feel like a dummy.

I'm not buying any time soon, so I'll have time to wait and hear your feedback on your experience with your Quatracs.

Sorry, my previous post was a bit harsh. I shouldn't have said things that way! My apologies!

You seem really stuck on Dunlop Enasaves & Vredestien Quatrac 5 tires. I don't know why? I'm not impressed by either. There are so many better choices than these tires, and you don't need new rims to pick one.

145/65r15 tires will require the purchase of 15" rims. That is an added cost.

15" x 5.5" rims are designed for 165-195 mm tires. 145 is not one size smaller. It's more like two sizes smaller for those rims.

You're sticking big feet (rims) in small shoes (tires). I wouldn't do that. Likewise, I wouldn't put big shoes (tires) on small feet (rims). At some level things should match up, and that's my point.

Speaking in general terms (not your particular situation) - narrow tires are found on smaller rims. I drove on 145SR12 tires for 14 years with my Ford Festiva. They were narrow tires, but they were also mounted on narrow 12" rims.

[7milesout]

You seem really stuck on Dunlop Enasaves & Vredestien Quatrac 5 tires. I don't know why?

I'll say I think you're mostly correct about that. If I could try to put it in words (not easy), it's because I'm not going to see many or frequent tire changes. I don't swap for winter. I leave them on until sparks fly. With that said, I'm not wasting my time f'n around with Korean crap. Yes, I have a problem with Korean automotive anything. I love Korean people, but their automotive engineering is lunacy. I left Toyota in design engineering to go to Hyundai-Kia design engineering. I expected it to be virtually the same. It was not. It was like leaving West Point Military Academy to go to work in an insane asylum. I know I've beat that point to death, so I'll wind it up by saying, maybe Korean tires are not so bad (any longer), but I'm not wasting my time or money on them to find out one way or the other. I did like those other (brand) tires that were linked on here (Nexxen maybe?), but they were simply more expensive than Quatracs.

145/65r15 tires will require the purchase of 15" rims. That is an added cost.

That is at least one flaw with my current idea. I prefer NOT to spend money on wheels. And the other flaw is, since the speedometer has some level of error, going to a taller tire would tend to correct the speedometer. And reduce rpm. I would prefer that. The 145/65 R15s going microscopically the wrong way. They're nearly the same O.D.

15" x 5.5" rims are designed for 165-195 mm tires. 145 is not one size smaller. It's more like two sizes smaller for those rims.

You're sticking big feet (rims) in small shoes (tires). I wouldn't do that. Likewise, I wouldn't put big shoes (tires) on small feet (rims). At some level things should match up, and that's my point.

Again, you're correct, I'm not disagreeing with that. I did study about that a little. There are a lot of folks putting 145/65 R15 tires on 5.5" wide wheels. Guys who have older Porsche vehicles for one. I don't know the detail why they're doing it, but they are. And several other instances I read about. And they're not having problems with it.

Speaking in general terms (not your particular situation) - narrow tires are found on smaller rims. I drove on 145SR12 tires for 14 years with my Ford Festiva. They were narrow tires, but they were also mounted on narrow 12" rims.

That's almost unfathomable to consider riding on 12" wheels these days. Can good quality 12" tires still be found? That uniqueness of the Festiva makes that car attractive to me.

[Mark]

I'll say I think you're mostly correct about that. If I could try to put it in words (not easy), it's because I'm not going to see many or frequent tire changes. I don't swap for winter. I leave them on until sparks fly. With that said, I'm not wasting my time f'n around with Korean crap. Yes, I have a problem with Korean automotive anything. I love Korean people, but their automotive engineering is lunacy. I left Toyota in design engineering to go to Hyundai-Kia design engineering. I expected it to be virtually the same. It was not. It was like leaving West Point Military Academy to go to work in an insane asylum. I know I've beat that point to death, so I'll wind it up by saying, maybe Korean tires are not so bad (any longer), but I'm not wasting my time or money on them to find out one way or the other. I did like those other (brand) tires that were linked on here (Nexxen maybe?), but they were simply more expensive than Quatracs.

That is at least one flaw with my current idea. I prefer NOT to spend money on wheels. And the other flaw is, since the speedometer has some level of error, going to a taller tire would tend to correct the speedometer. And reduce rpm. I would prefer that. The 145/65 R15s going microscopically the wrong way. They're nearly the same O.D.

Again, you're correct, I'm not disagreeing with that. I did study about that a little. There are a lot of folks putting 145/65 R15 tires on 5.5" wide wheels. Guys who have older Porsche vehicles for one. I don't know the detail why they're doing it, but they are. And several other instances I read about. And they're not having problems with it.

You seem to know what you want. So this is for others reading this thread. There are several tire choices that cost less than the Vredestein tires, and they are a much superior tire. The Korean tires are even a much better value than the Vredestein & Dunlop tires. Members don't have to buy 15" rims to replace your factory tires when they wear out. In almost every case, a 15" rim will increase your tire costs. It's more difficult to find quality 15" tires for under $100 today. That's not the case with 14" tires. I will share some examples without looking real hard.

Typical 14" factory tires -
165/65r14 Dunlop Enasave (340AB rating/no warranty) - $187 @ Discount Tire & Tire Rack
165/65r14 Falken Sincera SN250A A/S (320BB rating/no warranty) - $86 @ Discount Tire

Narrow 15" Vredestein that will require the purchase of 15" rims
145/65r15 Vredestein Quatrac 5 *** - (400AA rating/40,000 mile warranty) - $90 @ Tire Rack

In my opinion, all of the tires below are much better choices for under $90. They all have a superior UTQG rating & better warranty, too. A factory 165/65r14 tire is 22.4" in diameter & most 175/65r14 tires will be 23" in diameter. The tire variance is 2.7%, and anything under 3% variance is considered acceptable in the auto tire world. I believe a 23" tire works in one's favor for several reasons. I will skip those for now.

I am going to also point out one factor in buying tires today. Years ago, I thought nothing of buying tires mounted on new rims from places like Tire Rack. When I needed snow tires for my wife's 1997 VW Golf, I thought nothing of buying winter tires mounted/balanced on steel rims from them. TPMS has changed all that! Buying tires already mounted on rims to save money no longer works unless you are willing to sacrifice your TPMS (which many do) or pay extra to have sensors added after the fact.

You may have a Tire Rack tire installer near you, but their service charges are sometimes a bit on the high side. If you live near a Discount Tire store, they are a good place to start. Some services Discount Tire will do for "free", and I like that word! Dirk & others have pointed out great service at Discount Tire stores.

To keep this simple, I am going to use Discount Tire as my primary shopping source.

165/65r14 tires -

Kumho Solus TA31 (500AA rating/60,000 mile warranty) - $68/tire @ Discount Tire today. The same tire is $97/tire @ Tire Rack. My point is not to push the Kumho tire. My point is Discount Tire is competitive in pricing & seems to offer great service!!!! This tire may be the best 165/65r14 tire value available today. It's a very decent tire for the price at least.

That is the only 165/65r14 tire that I would purchase from Discount Tires very limited choices. Thus, time to move on to their 175/65r14 tire choices.

175/65r14 tires -

Falken Sincera SN250 A/S (720AB rating/80,000 mile warranty) for $81/tire @ Discount Tire & Tire Rack.
Steve ran these tires on his "Cheap Plastic" car (300,000+ miles when he sold it), & they performed quite well for him. If someone got 35,000- 40,000 miles out of a pair Vredestein tires, they will most likely get 70,000-80,000 miles out of these tires for less money. Plus, they will look & handle better on your Mirage. Keep in mind the factory Falken tires listed above have a 320BB rating & no warranty. These tires are a different beast! Plus, they are cheaper than the junk 165/65r14 tires put on the new Mirage today.

Personally, I wouldn't look beyond this tire, but I will list a few more for those who like options -

Falken SN201 A/S (620AB/65,000 mile warranty) - $77/tire @ Discount Tire
I am not sure the small savings over the SN250 is worth it, but it's still a good choice.

Cooper Evolution Tour (580AA/60,000 mile warranty) - $85/tire @ Discount Tire
Cooper is my favorite tire brand. I have used this brand for decades. I hope Goodyear doesn't ruin them.

Toyo Extensa A/S II (620AB/75,000 mile warranty) - $85/tire @ Discount Tire

Hankook Kinergy ST H735 (680AA/70,000 mile warranty) - $87/tire @ Discount Tire

Kumho Solus TA11 (700AB/75,000 mile warranty) - $89/tire @ Tire Rack

Mastercraft SRT Touring (600AB/65,000 mile warranty) - $64/tire @ tires-easy.com
Made by a Cooper company & a great value!

Cooper & Mastercraft are very popular with small town tire shops in my area. My brother hated the factory tires on his GMC pickup truck. They were bad from day one. He was glad to wear them out & get Cooper tires on his truck this winter. Goodyear purchased Cooper tires recently. Goodyear & Cooper are the only two American tire brands if that is important to anyone.

I will stop here, & I did look a little beyond Discount Tire. Discount Tire is a good place to start, however. These tires are all priced under the Vredestein Quatrac 5 (400AA/40,000 mile warranty) tires. In my honest opinion, they are all superior tires (except maybe in snow). None of them require the purchase of new rims. 14" x 4.5" steel rims are designed for 145-175 mm wide tires.

Whenever I search for 165/65r14 tires on tirerack.com, Vredestein Quatrac 5 tires will pop up first almost 99% of the time. If it weren't for that, I would have never heard of Vredestein tires. Since Tire Rack typically carries about 5-8 different 165/65r14 tires, the Vredestein tires become a consideration. If I were looking at 175/65r14 tires, I seriously wouldn't give the Vredestein tires a thought.

Final note -

Discount Tire offers zero 175/55r15 (15" factory tire size) tire choices for under $100. There are some good ones for more money, however.

185/55r15 has the same 23" diameter of a 175/65r14 tire. The 185/55r15 Falken Sincera SN250 A/S tire would be $106/tire @ Discount Tire. That's $25/tire ($100/set of 4) more than the same tire in a 14" size. Discount Tire does offer one 185/55r15 tire under $100 that I would consider, & it would be the Nexen. A couple others are under $100, but they are snow tires or tire companies I would not consider. In most cases, 15" tires will push you over the $100/tire price range today.

Final last note - Tire prices can change daily. Everything I just shared today could be different tomorrow. That's why I continue to look for deals & jump on really good ones when I see them. My first pair of replacement tires were the Federal SS657 tires @ $40/tire from simpletire.com (no complaints for that price). I bought a pair of Nexen N'Priz AH5 for $50/tire from tires-easy.com (best tire purchase for my Mirage so far). I paid around $65/tire for a pair Kumho Solus TA31 tires from Walmart, & approximately $68/tire for the Vredestein Quatrac 5 on backorder from Tire Rack. All these tires are 165/65r14.

[Wallythacker]

You seem to know what you want. So this is for others reading this thread. There are several tire choices that cost less than the Vredestein tires, and they are a much superior tire. The Korean tires are even a much better value than the Vredestein & Dunlop tires. Members don't have to buy 15" rims to replace your factory tires when they wear out. In almost every case, a 15" rim will increase your tire costs. It's more difficult to find quality 15" tires for under $100 today. That's not the case with 14" tires. I will share some examples without looking real hard.

Mark, really comprehensive and valuable even to guys like me across the border. I was dead set on getting 15" Konig Helium and 185-55/15 this spring, new Mirage or 2017 Mirage. Now? I don't think so. There are so many good 14" choices that buying new wheels when I have some 14" alloys around makes no sense. I do however like the thought of skinny winter tires and pursuing that makes more economic and safety sense than being flashy. I also like tall tires as a 5.5 speed but I can't have it all. I guess the ideal for me is to have tall skinny winter tires to increase mileage and traction and nice, reasonable width 3 season tires.

[7milesout]

Falken Sincera SN250 A/S (720AB rating/80,000 mile warranty) for $81/tire @ Discount Tire & Tire Rack.
Steve ran these tires on his "Cheap Plastic" car (300,000+ miles when he sold it), & they performed quite well for him. If someone got 35,000- 40,000 miles out of a pair Vredestein tires, they will most likely get 70,000-80,000 miles out of these tires for less money. Plus, they will look & handle better on your Mirage. Keep in mind the factory Falken tires listed above have a 320BB rating & no warranty. These tires are a different beast! Plus, they are cheaper than the junk 165/65r14 tires put on the new Mirage today.

I'll admit, you may have sold me on these big ole wide-ass dragster slicks. As I would rather NOT have to procure new wheels. Lots mo' cheapuh if I don't.

I have one question though: What makes you say: They will look & handle better [than Quatrac 5s] on your Mirage? My assumption is that the Quatrac 5s would handle better than the Sinceras. Are you basing that on the 720AB or something?

[Mark]

I'll admit, you may have sold me on these big ole wide-ass dragster slicks. As I would rather NOT have to procure new wheels. Lots mo' cheapuh if I don't.

I have one question though: What makes you say: They will look & handle better [than Quatrac 5s] on your Mirage? My assumption is that the Quatrac 5s would handle better than the Sinceras. Are you basing that on the 720AB or something?

I think a 175/65r14 tire will track better than a skinny 145/65r14 tire, especially on grooved roads. We have those in some places. We have metal bridges in some places, too. Skinny tires don't track well on them. I have to believe a Mirage with slightly larger 175/65r14 tires will be more planted on the road, even though a skinner tire may do better in snow. Plus, the speedometer is a bit off with 165/65r14 tires. I notice the slight difference when using Google Maps & your speed is shown. I suspect a 175/65r14 may actually reflect a more accurate speed.

Others can pipe up better than me, because I have stuck with 165/65r14 tires. I know guys like Dirk have taken my suggestions in the past. I would be curious to see how accurate a 175/65r14 tire seems using Google Maps. When I use Google Maps it will give the speed limit in a location & the speed you are traveling. I use it to keep tabs on my student drivers sometimes, too. Overall, I can glance over & somewhat see what speed they are going, but at times I will turn on Google Maps & really keep tabs on them.

My biggest negative of the Mirage is the electric power steering. The steering is too sensitive when in motion. I think skinner tires will make that seem worse, & wider tires will improve the steering sensation, too.

A Vredestein Quatrac 5 may seem soft & squishy in a warmer climate, because the rubber is made to remain soft in the cold for added traction. Most snow tires aren't even given a UTQG rating, but the Quatrac 5 is not a true winter tire either.

The UTGQ gives us a sense of the life of the tire, & I feel their stated warranty does the same. It's not a real standard measurement across brands, however. Thus, I don't put total faith into those numbers. I do feel confident that a 700 rated tire will outlast a 350 rated tire, however.

Using some quote parts from Tire Rack -

UTQG Treadwear grades are based on actual road use where the test tire is run in a convoy on a 400-mile test loop in Texas (West Texas, actually) for a total of 7,200 miles. The test vehicle can have its alignment set, air pressure checked, and tires rotated every 800 miles. At the end of the 7,200 mile test, the wear on the tires is measured and compared to a reference tire that was being run under the same conditions. If the test tire is expected to last as long as the reference tire, it receives a UTQG Treadwear grade of 100. If it is expected to last twice as long, it would receive a grade of 200. 300 means it is expected to last three times as long, and so on.

Traction Grades /Asphalt g-Force /Concrete g-Force
AA / Above 0.54 / 0.38
A / Above 0.47 / 0.35
B / Above 0.38 / 0.26
C / Less Than 0.38/ 0.26

Temperature Grades/ Speeds in mph
A Over 115
B Between 100 to 115
C Between 85 to 100

AA is a pretty common rating, but a tire with an AB rating wouldn't alarm me either. You can read it all here -

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiret....jsp?techid=48

On a personal level, I think 165-185 wide tires look nice on a Mirage. It's a very appropriate width for the car.

I would have considered 155/80r13 (flash back to my 1978 Honda Civic Wagon tires) snow tires for my Mirage, but 13" rims don't fit on a 2017+ Mirage. The brake rotors are too large. Plus, I would have ended up with the same Nokian Nordman 7 snow tires at the time anyways. Buying 13" rims to reduce my tire width by 10 mm wouldn't have seemed worth it. I am cheap, too!

14" rims are as small as you can go on a 2017+ Mirage. Anyone who has changed tires can see the brake clearance for themselves. In my mind, someone wanting more tire width would jump to 15" tires, but even then I would stick to 175-185 mm wide tires. Top Fuel presentation on all that is really good, & I agree with everything he shares, too.

A person can run 175-185 wide tires on 14" rims if they really want to do that without buying new rims. A 175/65r14 is the best example of that. A 185/60r14 (22.7") is a legit tire size, too. I think it would fit on a 14" x 4.5" steel rim even though it is technically one size over.

14" x 5" & 15" x 5" alloy rims would be perfect for the Mirage in my opinion, but the aftermarket wheel industry doesn't cater to those sizes very often.