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Thread: Gauging interest: front strut bar

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    Administrator Daox's Avatar
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    Gauging interest: front strut bar

    So, I've had a couple people ask about front strut bars for the Mirage now. So, I'm just checking to see what kind of interest you guys would have should I go ahead full and get a batch made.

    Also, if you guys have a front strut bar, feel free to share how it has affected handling please. I know several people have said that it makes a noticeable difference.

    So, please let me know if you have any interest in a front strut bar.

    Edit: Here is my thread on testing a front strut bar.

    https://mirageforum.com/forum/showth...tower-movement


    Custom Mirage products: Cruise control kit, Glove box light, MAF sensor housing, Rear sway bar, Upper grill block

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    Moderator inuvik's Avatar
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    You can count me in as interested!

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  4. #3
    Still Plays With Cars Loren's Avatar
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    I've been thinking about making one, myself.

    One thing you might consider is incorporating a bracket for an engine torque strut. I happened to have one in the garage that I adapted the brackets to fit the Mirage and was VERY pleased at the improved throttle response that it provided. But, the bracket on the strut tower end flexed too much and ultimately cracked.

    Anyway... would be a cool thing to consider in your design, even it's just a matter of making the right side mounting plate a little wider and popping a couple holes in it... something to build from.

    Part of me wonders just how much (or how little) the strut towers actually move in and out toward the center of the car. If you look at how the car is put together, it doesn't seem like they could move much. I have this thought because I absolutely hate adding WEIGHT to the car. If anyone could do some detailed testing in some way to verify whether or not the brace would actually help, and WHY it helps...

    For instance, if you put on a brace, and it helps make the car a little quieter over bumps... is it because you've connected the strut towers? Or is it because you've added mass to the top of the strut tower where the strut bearing mounts? It's thin sheet metal, it's got some up and down flex to it. Maybe just beefing that up with a 3/16" plate to eliminate some of that flex would have the same effect?

    Needless to say, I've not had time to put ENOUGH thought into this, and it's not a current priority.
    Simplify and add lightness.

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    Administrator Daox's Avatar
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    Loren, I completely agree. That is why I asked for feedback. The way the front strut towers are constructed it does seem unlikely that they'd really flex that much. That being said, people do say it improves things. Is it placebo, or actual? It would really be great if we could figure out a good way to measure that movement.
    Custom Mirage products: Cruise control kit, Glove box light, MAF sensor housing, Rear sway bar, Upper grill block

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    Still Plays With Cars Loren's Avatar
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    It might take some specialized equipment to measure. I can't think of a good way to measure it simply.

    In a former life, I worked for Raytheon Aircraft in the experimental flight test department. We tested and measured EVERYTHING. So, for something like this, they'd probably measure vibration on the strut tower itself (frequency, amplitude, that kind of thing), and then once a bar was installed for test purposes... perhaps a smallish, "flexible" bar... they would put a strain gauge on the bar to see how much it flexes.

    You could cheat a little bit, and not really get a "measurement", but at least learn if things are moving, by using some sort of a destructive or deformable gauge. For instance, you could epoxy a small glass rod from the shock tower back to the firewall. Drive. Does the rod break? Well, if it doesn't... then either your epoxy wasn't rigid enough, or there's just no movement happening.

    Or you could do a similar experiment with clay. Maybe epoxy or weld a rod to the shock tower back toward the firewall. And rather than attach it to the firewall, just embed it in a blob of clay stuck to the firewall. Then, after a drive, you can see how much it has moved. Sort of.

    If there's enough movement in something like that, you might be able to put a video camera on it to gauge how much it moves.

    Other than that, it's mostly subjective. Does it make the car "feel" more rigid going over a railroad crossing? Does it seem to reduce the tin-can "thumpiness" of the car going over a bumpy road?

    Again... much of that kind of NVH stuff could potentially be improved by just adding some mass in the right place. The bar itself may or may not be necessary.

    Interestingly, one of the "holy wars" in the Miata community used to be whether or not the car needed a shock tower brace. The arguments raged on from about 1990 to 1998. The argument being that on a Miata, the shock is actually a SHOCK, it's not a strut. Lateral forces are imparted to the upper and lower control arms. The top of the shock tower only sees up and down forces, so there should be no need for a shock tower brace on a Miata. Of course, people who added one said they could feel an improvement. And the engineers told them they were nuts... and on and on.

    Then, the 1999 Miata Sport came from the factory with a shock tower brace. WTF? The general concensus is that it's more for NVH than for handling. It just keeps things more rigid so that they don't move around and create vibrations and noise. And the 1999-2005 (NB chassis) Miata is absolutely a more refined ride than the 1990-1997 (NA chassis) Miata. That shock tower is only part of it, though. They added a BUNCH of other bracing, some of it welded in places that you can't see, to make the chassis stiffer.

    So, yeah... there's probably some improvement in ride quality and noise to be had from adding a strut brace on the Mirage. My personal struggle is... is it worth adding weight for? Is it going to improve the HANDLING of the car? Probably not.

    Another idea for you... find a cheap, mass-produced, aluminum strut bar from another car, Like This.

    If you find one of the correct length that will fit the available space, now all you have to do is create the end brackets to fit the car.

    And it's a nice aluminum bar rather than a heavy steel one.
    Simplify and add lightness.

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    Man Loren that engine brace idea is brilliant. I think that would really help. As someone who has had a UR Strut bar for some time now, I can vouch for a better feel, but to be able to reduce the engine shudder and tighten everything up a bit further would really be great. There are certain times (like taking off from a stop on a steep incline) where the engine feels like it is banging off of the firewall... That brace would remedy that for sure.
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    Still Plays With Cars Loren's Avatar
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    Yeah, I really liked the engine torque strut. But, oddly enough, I didn't notice when it broke! I guess it broke gradually. The bracket started a crack/tear and probably reduced its effectiveness over time before outright breaking.

    I firm torque strut does introduce some noise through the strut tower, though. It sort of made the tower and firewall an amplifier for engine noise. Personally, I kinda liked that, too. It wasn't really loud, just kind of "growly". I guess all of that (the improved throttle response/feel and being able to hear the engine more) helped me as I was learning how the car wanted to be driven (remember, I'm talking autocross here). Once I figured it out, it didn't matter as much.

    Redoing the torque strut is still on my list of things to do at some point, though.
    Simplify and add lightness.

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    Senior Member Alex1a1f's Avatar
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    I'm interested.
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    I'm interested. I was planning on getting the Ultra Racing strut tower bar when I had an extra $150 laying around.

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    Administrator Daox's Avatar
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    Just doing a bit of digging on the forum. Here is some info from Cani Lupine's install:

    http://mirageforum.com/forum/showthr...rut-bar-photos

    I wasn't quite sure if I'd notice much of a difference, but you can feel it. Kind of hard to put into words, but it makes it feel like a bigger, heavier car without the weight. The front end feels more solid, and the suspension is more precise. It's not a dramatic change, but it definitely makes the car feel more refined.



    Custom Mirage products: Cruise control kit, Glove box light, MAF sensor housing, Rear sway bar, Upper grill block

    Current project: DIY Nitrous oxide setup for ~$100

        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2015 Mirage DE 1.2 manual: 47.2 mpg (US) ... 20.1 km/L ... 5.0 L/100 km ... 56.7 mpg (Imp)


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